Chet was my boss for 7 years. When I started there, I asked the file clerk if she had a copy of his testimony in that case. She did. I read it. I can understand his feeling of a "greatest blunder" but daresay that was more political than technical. There were defintiely people who thought he had set back considerably the progress on sprinkler protection as a life safety feature by his testimony. BTW, I think Chet was Chairman of the Board of NFPA, as well as Chairman of 13 at that time. The main issue was whether sprinklers would have saved the kids. In summary, Chet said more likely than not, no. He also said that the newest technology then in development, the QR sprinkler, would have saved them. Another issue was the seasonal nature of the place and keeping the system wet only in season, then draining it down for the winter. I recall he said that would promote corrosion and could adversely affect the system's performance.
As discussed among the Forum, there were lots of issues with this place besides the lack of sprinkler protection, i.e. the interior finish, decorations, lighting, exit signage, etc. Dave David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP Firetech Engineering Incorporated --- On Wed, 7/14/10, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Haunted House To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 10:52 AM I have met Chet twice, in the course of NFPA committee work. I'm flattered that he took a liking to me; at lunch during our second encounter, I asked him the about the achievements he was most proud of. He said that he couldn't cite just one, but that he could easily identify his greatest blunder, that being his work on that litigation. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ParsleyConsulting Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Haunted House David, Some of us geriatrics remember that event quite well, perhaps because of the spectacle the subsequent trial turned into. If my senility hasn't hit quite completely, my memory is that Chet Schirmer testified at some length that fire sprinklers would not have made any difference, and he was equally opposed in his testimony by Rolf Jensen who claimed that they would have. From the small fraction of the testimony I read it was quite a show. Seems to me the argument spilled over into some heavy acrimony during the next couple of cycles of NFPA-13 committee meetings, as both men were members, and if I'm correct, I think Chet was the chairman. And, although I'm not quite old enough to remember this, the NFPA journal had a long article a few years back on the Coconut Grove nightclub fire up in Boston in '44 (I think). One of the issues in that fire, according to the article, was the highly flammable paper decorative material over the booths along the walls, which was made to look like a thatched roof. That was not the cause of the fire, by any means, but it did contribute significantly to what happened, and the tragic loss of life. -- PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website David de Vries wrote: > You younger guys may not remember a rather important historical event involving a haunted house in NJ in the 1970's. The place was not sprinklered and several (like 5 or 6) teenagers died in the fire. The place was loaded with foam plastics and the fire spread too quickly for them to ffind the exit in the dark and twisted corridors. Thus followed all the requirements for special amusement buildings. > > Dave, look at the configuration, materials of construction and decoration, heights, etc. I would recommend at least OH1 and QR throughout the assembly area. Storage, mechanical, etc. at least OH2. > > Also, Dave, look closely at the lighting and exit signage reqs in 101. > > Dave > > David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP > Firetech Engineering Incorporated > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/13/10, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Todd Williams <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Haunted House > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 6:35 PM > > > I've only done one and I based it on OH2. One of the caveats was that > it could not be used as a for storage other than for items that are > part of the display. > > > At 05:23 PM 7/13/2010, you wrote: > >> Assembly would fall under Light Hazard (seems lite to me) but like a church >> or auditorium your good at L H, did a amusement park in Glen Echo's MD and >> everything was GP I plus mech areas GP II, personally I'd dither, that is if >> you have the water design to GP I and show it as LT hazard with a large >> safety factor, sleep well at night. >> >> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Autry, David <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Okay, agreed, it's an assembly occupancy/special amusement. >>> >>> What NFPA 13 occupancy/hazard would it be? >>> >>> >>> >>> David Autry >>> Plans Examiner >>> Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office >>> 246 S. 14th Street >>> Lincoln, NE 68508 >>> 402-471-9659 >>> 402-471-3118 fax >>> www.sfm.ne.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> >> to:[email protected]<to%3ASprinklerforum-request@ firesprinkler.org> >> >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tom Poisal, CET >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > Todd G. 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