My thought is that it's just not right. But if we're to play with not right then we have to ask the question: Why do we need slope? Obviously for draining. But is it just for draining? We have all kinds of detail rules for how much can be drained using various plugs, valves & drum drips. I'd guess it isn't then to promote complete draining since there are exceptions for areas with trapped water. Is it to limit corrosion? Perhaps since the most aggressive corrosion seems to center (align?) along the water/air interface. Is it so droopy lines don't freeze up? I think mostly this. So if that's the case you pretty much need a trapped area that full of water for a substantial distance so that water doesn't can exert lateral force against the weakest material (typically fittings in steel and piping in copper). So if we're going somewhere that is not exactly per code, and in this case where the small piping has adequate slope and the owner is willing to spend money for lots of drains on the larger, flatter mains, then why not? He just needs to be aware (in writing as always) that this is not the preferred method (if you think about codes they're developed by people familiar with the inherent problems and are the preferred method of overcoming them--codified for clarity's sake--and don't start up on how "clear" they are) and that he runs a possible greater risk of freezing which will have monetary repercussions such as lost product, the costs associated with complying with temporarily downed systems, and the repairs, re-assessment, & possible re-building. As a note I'm personally tired of the concept that we, as contractors (not engineers), are somehow responsible for ensuring that no mishap regarding fire systems or fire ever happens to a client. Anyways, I'm bnot to climb up on the box and I'll spare you all.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > My only thought with the Dropmaster is how would it maintain a 10" suction > on a pressurized system? > > > > At 11:33 AM 8/27/2010, you wrote: >> >> Greg, >> >> I checked out the Dropmaster website. >> >> Very slick. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> James L (Jim) Roberts, PE/SET| FLUOR | Principal Fire Protection Engineer >> >> Centrral Engineering | [email protected] | IODC 20.5149 | O >> +1.864.281.5149 | www.fluor.com >> >> >> >> >> >> |---------+----------------------------------------> >> | | Greg McGahan | >> | | <[email protected]> | >> | | Sent by: | >> | | sprinklerforum-boun...@fires| >> | | prinkler.org | >> | | 08/27/2010 08:34 AM | >> | | Please respond to | >> | | sprinklerforum | >> |---------+----------------------------------------> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> To| >> | [email protected] >> | >> | >> cc| >> | >> | >> | >> Subject| >> | Re: dry main low point drains | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> >> >> >> I have often wondered if it would not be easier to utilize a permanent >> "drop master" or similar instead of relying on a gravity drain for some >> dry systems. I know 13 doesn't allow it, but it seems like a good idea >> to me. >> >> On 8/27/2010 6:17 AM, Todd Williams wrote: >> > I am working on a project in a vacant building where the owner wants >> > to convert the existing wet system to dry. The branch lines are >> > adequately pitched, but the main isn't. Is there a way to install a >> > series of drum drips to satisfactorily drain the main? I was thinking >> > if one drain was installed on every size pipe (pipe schedule system). >> > The owner is not all that concerned by the number of drains since the >> > cost will pale in comparison to the cost of heating the building >> > (uninsulated old mill building with old, inefficient heating system) . >> > Thoughts? >> > >> > Todd G. Williams, PE >> > Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> > Stonington, CT >> > 860.535.2080 >> > www.fpdc.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected] >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> ------------------------------------------------------------ The >> information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which >> it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or >> privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message >> you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >> distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message >> is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and >> delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message >> are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views >> of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For >> Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To >> Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put >> the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 253.680.7346 Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
