I'm with Craig - having spent 10 years managing fire protection for two electrical utility operations in my sordid youth, this is a subject dear to my heart.
Despite trying for 25 years I've not been able to find any evidence of anyone having been injured or killed by the conductivity of water being discharged through a fire suppression system. The origins of the 'risk' appear to be in research work done by the Sapeurs-Pompiers de Paris in the late 20's using an experimental rig consisting of two insulated metal branchpipes with a ammeter bridging them. When a current was passed through one pipe while they were discharging, the two jets mixed at some distance from the tips and a current was seen to flow. In real life zip ! I wish someone with more money than me would would do a proper scientific study and dispel what is essentially a myth - in the UK this causes us to have install multiple fire extinguishers wherever there is an electrical risk despite the fact that I routinely specify waterspray on 400 kV transformers and 25kV turboalternators. Regards Stewart On 27 Jan 2011, at 20:10, Bobby McCullough wrote: > Maybe scroll through this from January 2010? > > You're correct Ron. Biggest reasons for not sprinklering is either fear of > accidental head discharge and/or electrocution from the accidental head > discharge. Neither can be substantiated through verifiable statistics. > > Last year I did some investigation of reported Industrial accidents related > to electrocutions and the only fire fighter electrocution recorded for the > past 15+ years was for a wildfire where a power line fell into an area where > firefighters were using a hose attack. There was not one recorded incident > of ANY personnel being injured due to water in an electrical room. > > The perception is that sprinklers randomly discharge all the time, all > sprinkler systems are deluge systems, if someone is standing in the room when > the sprinklers discharge they could be electrocuted. > > Typically dry equipment isn't as great a risk as oil filled, but still a risk. > > We had a carpet warehouse locally that had a fire begin in their second floor > electrical room. Fortunately it was sprinklered. The fire was out before > the FD arrived. This place stored millions of dollars of imported rugs. > When the news report stated the sprinkler saved the building, it was like > "YES, Score one for the sprinklers." They reopened the store later that day. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:39 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms > > Addressing Craig's mention of perceptions. There is a horrendous fear of > water damage among most (and especially electrical) engineers. I once had an > electrical engineer tell me you couldn't sprinkler a hydro-electric plant. > First because it was too full of electrical equipment and secondly (and more > humorously) because there wasn't enough water. When I pointed out that he had > the second biggest river in North America backed up against one side of his > building he told me that you couldn't use that water. I tried to find one of > those tables like in 13D as to where fires most commonly start in commercial > buildings but ran out of time. My gut tells me electrical rooms could be a > prime location and electrical vaults (where the transformers are) also seem > to be culprits. I just don't have any numbers to back up MY perceptions so > will not try to enforce them. > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:26 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> It makes no difference whether the line passes through the room or comes in >> and stops as long as you are in the allowable space as defined within the >> section of the electrical code. People are extrapolating limitations based >> on their perception not on code verbiage. We've had several detailed >> discussions on this matter. >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection Specialist >> Mechanical Department >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - >> 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:44 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms >> >> In the handbook of NFPA 72 they show a figure where the sprinkler pipe ends >> in the electrical room , but it does not go thru the room. >> mario berrios >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: George Church <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 11:54 am >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >> >> >> Remember they're the ones finding the invisible fault with you >> crossing an electrical room with your piping. >> >> So that you are sure you comply FULLY with the applicable code >> preventing you from doing this (ITHO) ask them to provide the >> applicable code reference. >> >> glc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio N. >> Alvarado >> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:38 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >> >> Eric: >> >> I understand and agree with you, but the EOR insist that the 4" main >> to the FD Connection, which by the way is dry (check valve in another >> space) should not cross the room since is in violation of NEC, >> according to their interpretation. I have already recited chapter and >> verse of the code requirements and exceptions, but it doesn't seem to >> sink in. There may other issues that affect their perception or >> attitude, but I'm kind stuck, and would really like to find >> irrefutable proof to my point. >> >> Eladio Alvarado >> AFSDII >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Eric >> Tysinger >> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >> >> To my knowledge, there is nothing from NFPA 13 that addresses this. >> The clearance requirements are found in the NEC, and there is nothing >> in the NEC that prohibits piping from entering and exiting the >> electrical room. >> Don't >> forget there are rules in NFPA 13 that allow the sprinkler to be >> omitted. I try to use these to avoid the questions all together. >> >> Thanks, >> Eric Tysinger CET >> NICET 108988 >> Designer >> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. >> 4370 Motorsport Drive >> Concord, NC 28027 >> p: (704)782-3032 >> f: (704)795-6838 >> C: (239)633-9703 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio N. >> Alvarado >> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:31 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Electrical Rooms >> >> Happy New Year to all!! >> >> I know that we have previously discussed Electrical Equipment rooms, >> and that the general consensus is that there is nothing in NFPA 13 >> that prohibits sprinkler pipe, be it mains and/or branch lines from >> entering the room, as long as it doesn't violate the require perimeter >> area of the particular equipment. Now my question is; is there a >> technical interpretation from NFPA 13 that explains this, and that >> someone in the forum may be aware of? I could really use this info to >> nail this subject closed with the EOR. >> >> Thanks in advanced, >> >> Eladio Alvarado >> AFSDII > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > > C'mon man! > > Brian Harris > FDFP Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike > Hairfield > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:54 PM > To: AFSA SprinklerFORUM > Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > > > This is Lazy, look it up in the NEC > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Electrical Rooms >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:47:30 -0500 >> >> I'm being lazy but does anybody know off the top of their head if you can >> run sprinkler lines over an Electrical room if it has a ceiling? >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Brian Harris >> >> First Defense Fire Protection >> >> 11957 Ramah Church Road >> >> Huntersville, NC 28078 >> >> Phone: 704.948.3506 >> >> Fax: 704.948.3507 >> >> Nicet # 128476 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) >> http://www.pctools.com/ >> ======= >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
