Sounds like a prostate issue.
Thank You
Rahe Loftin, P.E.
Region 7 - GSA
Cell - 817-371-3102
"Matthew J.
Willis" To
<matt@norredfire. <[email protected]>
com> cc
Sent by:
sprinklerforum-bo Subject
unces@firesprinkl RE: Electrical Rooms
er.org
01/28/2011 07:54
AM
Please respond to
sprinklerforum@fi
resprinkler.org
The Mythbusters did just that. One episode about the 3rd rail and
urination,
the other about a water based taser. In both, they could not get a
continuous stream, therefore there was no conduction.
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis, CET
Automatic Fire Sprinklers
Norred Fire Systems L.L.C.
318-387-1134 Voice
318-816-1087 Mobile
318-387-1163 Facsimile
[email protected]
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stewart Kidd
> >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:59 PM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms
> >
> >I'm with Craig - having spent 10 years managing fire protection for two
> >electrical utility operations in my sordid youth, this is a subject dear
> >to my heart.
> >
> >Despite trying for 25 years I've not been able to find any evidence of
> >anyone having been injured or killed by the conductivity of water being
> >discharged through a fire suppression system. The origins of the 'risk'
> >appear to be in research work done by the Sapeurs-Pompiers de Paris in
> >the late 20's using an experimental rig consisting of two insulated
metal
> >branchpipes with a ammeter bridging them. When a current was passed
> >through one pipe while they were discharging, the two jets mixed at some
> >distance from the tips and a current was seen to flow.
> >
> >In real life zip !
> >
> >I wish someone with more money than me would would do a proper
scientific
> >study and dispel what is essentially a myth - in the UK this causes us
to
> >have install multiple fire extinguishers wherever there is an electrical
> >risk despite the fact that I routinely specify waterspray on 400 kV
> >transformers and 25kV turboalternators.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Stewart
> >On 27 Jan 2011, at 20:10, Bobby McCullough wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe scroll through this from January 2010?
> >>
> >> You're correct Ron. Biggest reasons for not sprinklering is either
> >fear of accidental head discharge and/or electrocution from the
> >accidental head discharge. Neither can be substantiated through
> >verifiable statistics.
> >>
> >> Last year I did some investigation of reported Industrial accidents
> >related to electrocutions and the only fire fighter electrocution
> >recorded for the past 15+ years was for a wildfire where a power line
> >fell into an area where firefighters were using a hose attack. There
was
> >not one recorded incident of ANY personnel being injured due to water in
> >an electrical room.
> >>
> >> The perception is that sprinklers randomly discharge all the time, all
> >sprinkler systems are deluge systems, if someone is standing in the room
> >when the sprinklers discharge they could be electrocuted.
> >>
> >> Typically dry equipment isn't as great a risk as oil filled, but still
> >a risk.
> >>
> >> We had a carpet warehouse locally that had a fire begin in their
second
> >floor electrical room. Fortunately it was sprinklered. The fire was
out
> >before the FD arrived. This place stored millions of dollars of
imported
> >rugs. When the news report stated the sprinkler saved the building, it
> >was like "YES, Score one for the sprinklers." They reopened the store
> >later that day.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET
> >> Fire Protection Specialist
> >> Mechanical Department
> >> CH2MHILL
> >> Lockwood Greene
> >> 1500 International Drive
> >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
> >> Direct - 864.599.4102
> >> Fax - 864.599.8439
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://www.ch2m.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:39 AM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms
> >>
> >> Addressing Craig's mention of perceptions. There is a horrendous fear
> >of water damage among most (and especially electrical) engineers. I once
> >had an electrical engineer tell me you couldn't sprinkler a hydro-
> >electric plant. First because it was too full of electrical equipment
and
> >secondly (and more humorously) because there wasn't enough water. When I
> >pointed out that he had the second biggest river in North America backed
> >up against one side of his building he told me that you couldn't use
that
> >water. I tried to find one of those tables like in 13D as to where fires
> >most commonly start in commercial buildings but ran out of time. My gut
> >tells me electrical rooms could be a prime location and electrical
vaults
> >(where the transformers are) also seem to be culprits. I just don't have
> >any numbers to back up MY perceptions so will not try to enforce them.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:26 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> It makes no difference whether the line passes through the room or
> >comes in and stops as long as you are in the allowable space as defined
> >within the section of the electrical code. People are extrapolating
> >limitations based on their perception not on code verbiage. We've had
> >several detailed discussions on this matter.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET
> >>> Fire Protection Specialist
> >>> Mechanical Department
> >>> CH2MHILL
> >>> Lockwood Greene
> >>> 1500 International Drive
> >>> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax -
> >>> 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [email protected]
> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:44 AM
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms
> >>>
> >>> In the handbook of NFPA 72 they show a figure where the sprinkler
pipe
> >ends in the electrical room , but it does not go thru the room.
> >>> mario berrios
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: George Church <[email protected]>
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 11:54 am
> >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Remember they're the ones finding the invisible fault with you
> >>> crossing an electrical room with your piping.
> >>>
> >>> So that you are sure you comply FULLY with the applicable code
> >>> preventing you from doing this (ITHO) ask them to provide the
> >>> applicable code reference.
> >>>
> >>> glc
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [email protected]
> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio
> >N.
> >>> Alvarado
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:38 AM
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms
> >>>
> >>> Eric:
> >>>
> >>> I understand and agree with you, but the EOR insist that the 4" main
> >>> to the FD Connection, which by the way is dry (check valve in another
> >>> space) should not cross the room since is in violation of NEC,
> >>> according to their interpretation. I have already recited chapter and
> >>> verse of the code requirements and exceptions, but it doesn't seem to
> >>> sink in. There may other issues that affect their perception or
> >>> attitude, but I'm kind stuck, and would really like to find
> >>> irrefutable proof to my point.
> >>>
> >>> Eladio Alvarado
> >>> AFSDII
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [email protected]
> >>> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Eric
> >>> Tysinger
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:37 AM
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms
> >>>
> >>> To my knowledge, there is nothing from NFPA 13 that addresses this.
> >>> The clearance requirements are found in the NEC, and there is nothing
> >>> in the NEC that prohibits piping from entering and exiting the
> >>> electrical room.
> >>> Don't
> >>> forget there are rules in NFPA 13 that allow the sprinkler to be
> >>> omitted. I try to use these to avoid the questions all together.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Eric Tysinger CET
> >>> NICET 108988
> >>> Designer
> >>> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
> >>> 4370 Motorsport Drive
> >>> Concord, NC 28027
> >>> p: (704)782-3032
> >>> f: (704)795-6838
> >>> C: (239)633-9703
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [email protected]
> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio
> >N.
> >>> Alvarado
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:31 AM
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Subject: Electrical Rooms
> >>>
> >>> Happy New Year to all!!
> >>>
> >>> I know that we have previously discussed Electrical Equipment rooms,
> >>> and that the general consensus is that there is nothing in NFPA 13
> >>> that prohibits sprinkler pipe, be it mains and/or branch lines from
> >>> entering the room, as long as it doesn't violate the require
perimeter
> >>> area of the particular equipment. Now my question is; is there a
> >>> technical interpretation from NFPA 13 that explains this, and that
> >>> someone in the forum may be aware of? I could really use this info to
> >>> nail this subject closed with the EOR.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks in advanced,
> >>>
> >>> Eladio Alvarado
> >>> AFSDII
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:59 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms
> >>
> >> C'mon man!
> >>
> >> Brian Harris
> >> FDFP Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected]
> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike
> >> Hairfield
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:54 PM
> >> To: AFSA SprinklerFORUM
> >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms
> >>
> >>
> >> This is Lazy, look it up in the NEC
> >>
> >>> From: [email protected]
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Subject: Electrical Rooms
> >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:47:30 -0500
> >>>
> >>> I'm being lazy but does anybody know off the top of their head if you
> >can
> >>> run sprinkler lines over an Electrical room if it has a ceiling?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Brian Harris
> >>>
> >>> First Defense Fire Protection
> >>>
> >>> 11957 Ramah Church Road
> >>>
> >>> Huntersville, NC 28078
> >>>
> >>> Phone: 704.948.3506
> >>>
> >>> Fax: 704.948.3507
> >>>
> >>> Nicet # 128476
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =======
> >>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> >>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770)
> >>> http://www.pctools.com/
> >>> =======
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
> >>>
> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]
> >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
> >>
> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]
> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> =======
> >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770)
> >> http://www.pctools.com/
> >> =======
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> =======
> >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770)
> >> http://www.pctools.com/
> >> =======
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
> >>
> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]
> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
> >>
> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum-
> >[email protected]
> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sprinklerforum mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
> >
> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send an email
to:[email protected]
> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3404 - Release Date: 01/27/11
> >01:37:00
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]
(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected]
To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]
(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
