- rather than (if it worked) a prostrate issue S On 28 Jan 2011, at 17:03, rahe.lof...@gsa.gov wrote:
> Sounds like a prostate issue. > > Thank You > > Rahe Loftin, P.E. > Region 7 - GSA > Cell - 817-371-3102 > > > > > > "Matthew J. > Willis" To > <matt@norredfire. <sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org> > com> cc > Sent by: > sprinklerforum-bo Subject > unces@firesprinkl RE: Electrical Rooms > er.org > > > 01/28/2011 07:54 > AM > > > Please respond to > sprinklerforum@fi > resprinkler.org > > > > > > > The Mythbusters did just that. One episode about the 3rd rail and > urination, > the other about a water based taser. In both, they could not get a > continuous stream, therefore there was no conduction. > > R/ > Matt > > > > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > Automatic Fire Sprinklers > Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > 318-387-1134 Voice > 318-816-1087 Mobile > 318-387-1163 Facsimile > m...@norredfire.com >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum- >>> boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Kidd >>> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:59 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms >>> >>> I'm with Craig - having spent 10 years managing fire protection for two >>> electrical utility operations in my sordid youth, this is a subject dear >>> to my heart. >>> >>> Despite trying for 25 years I've not been able to find any evidence of >>> anyone having been injured or killed by the conductivity of water being >>> discharged through a fire suppression system. The origins of the 'risk' >>> appear to be in research work done by the Sapeurs-Pompiers de Paris in >>> the late 20's using an experimental rig consisting of two insulated > metal >>> branchpipes with a ammeter bridging them. When a current was passed >>> through one pipe while they were discharging, the two jets mixed at some >>> distance from the tips and a current was seen to flow. >>> >>> In real life zip ! >>> >>> I wish someone with more money than me would would do a proper > scientific >>> study and dispel what is essentially a myth - in the UK this causes us > to >>> have install multiple fire extinguishers wherever there is an electrical >>> risk despite the fact that I routinely specify waterspray on 400 kV >>> transformers and 25kV turboalternators. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Stewart >>> On 27 Jan 2011, at 20:10, Bobby McCullough wrote: >>> >>>> Maybe scroll through this from January 2010? >>>> >>>> You're correct Ron. Biggest reasons for not sprinklering is either >>> fear of accidental head discharge and/or electrocution from the >>> accidental head discharge. Neither can be substantiated through >>> verifiable statistics. >>>> >>>> Last year I did some investigation of reported Industrial accidents >>> related to electrocutions and the only fire fighter electrocution >>> recorded for the past 15+ years was for a wildfire where a power line >>> fell into an area where firefighters were using a hose attack. There > was >>> not one recorded incident of ANY personnel being injured due to water in >>> an electrical room. >>>> >>>> The perception is that sprinklers randomly discharge all the time, all >>> sprinkler systems are deluge systems, if someone is standing in the room >>> when the sprinklers discharge they could be electrocuted. >>>> >>>> Typically dry equipment isn't as great a risk as oil filled, but still >>> a risk. >>>> >>>> We had a carpet warehouse locally that had a fire begin in their > second >>> floor electrical room. Fortunately it was sprinklered. The fire was > out >>> before the FD arrived. This place stored millions of dollars of > imported >>> rugs. When the news report stated the sprinkler saved the building, it >>> was like "YES, Score one for the sprinklers." They reopened the store >>> later that day. >>>> >>>> >>>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>>> Fire Protection Specialist >>>> Mechanical Department >>>> CH2MHILL >>>> Lockwood Greene >>>> 1500 International Drive >>>> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>>> craig.pr...@ch2m.com >>>> http://www.ch2m.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum- >>> boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:39 AM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms >>>> >>>> Addressing Craig's mention of perceptions. There is a horrendous fear >>> of water damage among most (and especially electrical) engineers. I once >>> had an electrical engineer tell me you couldn't sprinkler a hydro- >>> electric plant. First because it was too full of electrical equipment > and >>> secondly (and more humorously) because there wasn't enough water. When I >>> pointed out that he had the second biggest river in North America backed >>> up against one side of his building he told me that you couldn't use > that >>> water. I tried to find one of those tables like in 13D as to where fires >>> most commonly start in commercial buildings but ran out of time. My gut >>> tells me electrical rooms could be a prime location and electrical > vaults >>> (where the transformers are) also seem to be culprits. I just don't have >>> any numbers to back up MY perceptions so will not try to enforce them. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:26 AM, <craig.pr...@ch2m.com> wrote: >>>>> It makes no difference whether the line passes through the room or >>> comes in and stops as long as you are in the allowable space as defined >>> within the section of the electrical code. People are extrapolating >>> limitations based on their perception not on code verbiage. We've had >>> several detailed discussions on this matter. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>>>> Fire Protection Specialist >>>>> Mechanical Department >>>>> CH2MHILL >>>>> Lockwood Greene >>>>> 1500 International Drive >>>>> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - >>>>> 864.599.8439 craig.pr...@ch2m.com http://www.ch2m.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> cowprop...@aol.com >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:44 AM >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms >>>>> >>>>> In the handbook of NFPA 72 they show a figure where the sprinkler > pipe >>> ends in the electrical room , but it does not go thru the room. >>>>> mario berrios >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: George Church <for...@ptd.net> >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 11:54 am >>>>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Remember they're the ones finding the invisible fault with you >>>>> crossing an electrical room with your piping. >>>>> >>>>> So that you are sure you comply FULLY with the applicable code >>>>> preventing you from doing this (ITHO) ask them to provide the >>>>> applicable code reference. >>>>> >>>>> glc >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Eladio >>> N. >>>>> Alvarado >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:38 AM >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >>>>> >>>>> Eric: >>>>> >>>>> I understand and agree with you, but the EOR insist that the 4" main >>>>> to the FD Connection, which by the way is dry (check valve in another >>>>> space) should not cross the room since is in violation of NEC, >>>>> according to their interpretation. I have already recited chapter and >>>>> verse of the code requirements and exceptions, but it doesn't seem to >>>>> sink in. There may other issues that affect their perception or >>>>> attitude, but I'm kind stuck, and would really like to find >>>>> irrefutable proof to my point. >>>>> >>>>> Eladio Alvarado >>>>> AFSDII >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org]On Behalf Of Eric >>>>> Tysinger >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:37 AM >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >>>>> >>>>> To my knowledge, there is nothing from NFPA 13 that addresses this. >>>>> The clearance requirements are found in the NEC, and there is nothing >>>>> in the NEC that prohibits piping from entering and exiting the >>>>> electrical room. >>>>> Don't >>>>> forget there are rules in NFPA 13 that allow the sprinkler to be >>>>> omitted. I try to use these to avoid the questions all together. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Eric Tysinger CET >>>>> NICET 108988 >>>>> Designer >>>>> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. >>>>> 4370 Motorsport Drive >>>>> Concord, NC 28027 >>>>> p: (704)782-3032 >>>>> f: (704)795-6838 >>>>> C: (239)633-9703 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Eladio >>> N. >>>>> Alvarado >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:31 AM >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Subject: Electrical Rooms >>>>> >>>>> Happy New Year to all!! >>>>> >>>>> I know that we have previously discussed Electrical Equipment rooms, >>>>> and that the general consensus is that there is nothing in NFPA 13 >>>>> that prohibits sprinkler pipe, be it mains and/or branch lines from >>>>> entering the room, as long as it doesn't violate the require > perimeter >>>>> area of the particular equipment. Now my question is; is there a >>>>> technical interpretation from NFPA 13 that explains this, and that >>>>> someone in the forum may be aware of? I could really use this info to >>>>> nail this subject closed with the EOR. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advanced, >>>>> >>>>> Eladio Alvarado >>>>> AFSDII >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum- >>> boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:59 PM >>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >>>> >>>> C'mon man! >>>> >>>> Brian Harris >>>> FDFP Inc. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >>>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Mike >>>> Hairfield >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:54 PM >>>> To: AFSA SprinklerFORUM >>>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms >>>> >>>> >>>> This is Lazy, look it up in the NEC >>>> >>>>> From: br...@firstdefensefire.com >>>>> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> Subject: Electrical Rooms >>>>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:47:30 -0500 >>>>> >>>>> I'm being lazy but does anybody know off the top of their head if you >>> can >>>>> run sprinkler lines over an Electrical room if it has a ceiling? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brian Harris >>>>> >>>>> First Defense Fire Protection >>>>> >>>>> 11957 Ramah Church Road >>>>> >>>>> Huntersville, NC 28078 >>>>> >>>>> Phone: 704.948.3506 >>>>> >>>>> Fax: 704.948.3507 >>>>> >>>>> Nicet # 128476 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ======= >>>>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) >>>>> http://www.pctools.com/ >>>>> ======= >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>> >>>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> >>>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- >>> requ...@firesprinkler.org >>>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- >>> requ...@firesprinkler.org >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======= >>>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) >>>> http://www.pctools.com/ >>>> ======= >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======= >>>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) >>>> http://www.pctools.com/ >>>> ======= >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- >>> requ...@firesprinkler.org >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- >>> requ...@firesprinkler.org >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3404 - Release Date: 01/27/11 >>> 01:37:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
