What about a well and vertical turbine pump? I have had to do that in
the past when there was only a small domestic service to a building. It
turned out that the well / pump was quite a bit less costly than the new
underground service that would have been required. The well was less
expensive than the tank we needed.
On 4/4/2011 11:12 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Would have to be approved by local AHJ and not really designed for an area with
a finished ceiling. Interesting product but stills has limited listing.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Grise
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 2:08 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Design solution needed
As long as they are not too worried about cost you could try a vortex system
from Victaulic. They don't need much water, electricity, or space. They are
expensive though! I am also not sure what the lead time is on one.
On the plus side: they are very cool.
Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP
Sales Engineer
Alliance Fire Protection
130 w 9th Ave.
North Kansas City, MO 64116
*Licensed in KS& MO
913.888.0647 ph
913.888.0618 f
913.927.0222 cell
www. AFPsprink.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Design solution needed
Craig,
It's not. I just confused myself. I was trying to do something that
works really well in a different situation. I was just going down the
bigger pipe size in the system line when the whole problem is the
restricted pipe at the beginning. Have you figured the loss at a very
short run (since we have no idea about 10, 50, or 1000 feet)? I'm
having a bad math day.
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:49 AM,<[email protected]> wrote:
How is making bigger holes on the discharge end going to change the velocity in the
1.25" service pipe if the flow is a constant?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Design solution needed
With this little pipe velocity is the problem. I'm using the bigger
holes to require less pressure at the end head and so slow the water
down that's passing through the narrow pipe. Given the restriction of
the pipe and the constant calculated demand of 0.15/X (900 or 1500)
this may do nothing but my in head estimator isn't well calibrated
either.
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Morey, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
K8 heads could actually penalize his design in the OH-I area couldn't they? 7 psi
minimum end head dictates 14ish GPM out of a k5.6, even at 130 sq ft going to a K8
head would actually cause him to discharge more GPM than the density requires (at
least using my not particularly well calibrated internal calculator), and GPM as we
know is what creates friction loss. In the LH area if he spaced the heads out near
the limits a K8 will save him some pressure, but given his water supply that doesn't
look to be his biggest concern. The big question is how long the 1 1/4" run is
in my mind, if it's short enough you can jump up at the connection, if it isn't then
you don't have a lot of options unless maybe you can squeeze out some area
reductions (QR/Ceiling height reductions if they haven't been considered) with
careful code reading and head selection.
Mike Morey, SET
Sprinkler Designer
BMW Constructors, Inc.
O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.439.2695
www.bmwc.com<https://owa.bmwc.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.bmwc.com>
________________________________
From: [email protected] on behalf of Ron Greenman
Sent: Mon 4/4/2011 12:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Design solution needed
What K heads are you using. Bigger holes help more than bigger pipes
in good pressure/bad water situations. If you're using K5.6 see the
huge gain K8.0 will give you. And your moister recent post asked most
of the questions I asked just as that left and yours arrived.
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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