Apologies all for dragging up this 'old' thread (by this forum's standard), but was out and about and having problems with my email on my phone.
Anyways...Thank you for the suggestion Ron. A good one. I agree clients would usually be interested in a more cost effective solution/better idea and it would be a useful tool to ensure I'm kept in the discussions through the tender phase. It does however basically double the work in preparing the tender though. Would be nice if FM 3-0/3-26 stated allowances for room design to be utilized. Thanks again for your input!!! Damien Shannon Director of Sales and Technical Affairs Provincial Sprinkler Company Ltd. Unit 4, Cork Airport Industrial Estate Kinsale Road, Cork, Ireland. Office: (021) 496 5058 Mobile: (086) 788 8222 Fax: (021) 431 7425 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: 05 October 2011 15:14 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: FM Room Design type calc? Damien, Years ago when I was bidding and would run into one of these "specs'" (I may get a little nasty to engineers here since we've been going over the White Paper in class this week and it's about as sound as the Somali constitution so for all you engineers on the forum do as I instructed my kids during mass punishment--feel guilty for what you did wrong, fix it, and do better next time, ignore anything I say that doesn't personally apply to you) I'd do a low bid and a proper alternative/add with an explanation that the requirement was squishy and why, and that you'll try to go with the low bid but may have to go with the higher. This gives you some wiggle room and lets the client know that there's a question that there wasn't time to answer. A savvy business owner (opposed to a stupid one) will wonder why that low bidder didn't mention this. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Damien Shannon < [email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for the response Mark. > > I didn't see anything allowing it either though as you mention the FM > Engineer on a given project can make decisions such as this. Problem > is if you're at bidding stage (and the client gives you a day to price > it), often there isn't time to make the enquiry. Pricing for the worst > case scenario will often lose the job. Also we come across projects > where the specifications will state that the installation is to comply > with FM 2-0 and > 3-0 even though FM is not the insurer and therefore do not have a > representative to query. > > The only section that I see that seems to be allowing for 'room design' > type > calc, is section 2.1.1.10.3 of FM 3-26. However this is restricted to > use of EC sprinklers in a corridor. > > Thanks again for your reply Mark. > > Damien Shannon > Director of Sales and Technical Affairs Provincial Sprinkler Company > Ltd. > Unit 4, Cork Airport Industrial Estate Kinsale Road, Cork, Ireland. > Office: (021) 496 5058 > Mobile: (086) 788 8222 > Fax: (021) 431 7425 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark > Sornsin > Sent: 04 October 2011 17:24 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: FM Room Design type calc? > > Damien - I can't speak with absolute authority, but I'm pretty sure FM > does not recognize the room design method. However, I THINK you may > be able to get them to limit design areas when you have a room that's > surrounded by rated walls. E.g. a storage room surrounded by 1-hr. > walls could be designed to the room only (assuming it is under the > 1,500 sq.ft. or whatever design area). I would verify with the FM > Engineer on the job. Actually, having said that, you should attempt > to talk to that engineer in the first place. > It is ultimately their decision what they allow, and you may get one > who is more sympathetic to your arguments for room design. > > Mark A. Sornsin, PE| Fire Protection Engineer Ulteig Engineers, Inc.| > Fargo, ND [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Damien > Shannon > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 5:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: FM Room Design type calc? > > Dear forum. > > I am unable to see anywhere in the new FM Datasheets (i.e. 2-0 &3-0 as > opposed to the old 2-8N), where it allows for any type of a Room > Design type calculation. Not having this allowance would seem to > create havoc in certain situations. E.g. If you have a storage room > (that would otherwise qualify for Room Design), next to an > administrative area. Or where you have some rooms protected with EC > spks next to areas with SSP/Us. > > Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated. > > Damien Shannon > Director of Sales and Technical Affairs Provincial Sprinkler Company > Ltd. > Unit 4, Cork Airport Industrial Estate Kinsale Road, Cork, Ireland. > Office: (021) 496 5058 > Mobile: (086) 788 8222 > Fax: (021) 431 7425 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment s/20111005/eb1fd8d0/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
