That was last month's discussion, but since I'm feeling particularly punchy... I'll agree to drop the term "remote area" when NFPA 13 does. What's really funny is that NFPA 13 uses it both ways!
8.17.2.2 (1) Buildings located in remote areas that are inaccessible for fire department support. and 22.3.3 (15)* Diagram to accompany gridded system calculations to indicate flow quantities and directions for lines with sprinklers operating in the remote area. Jack Fairchild -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:30 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Multiple design methods in one building I really wish we'd just drop the term "remote area" as it only applies when the the hydraulically most demanding area is actually also the most remote. I know what you mean but lots of folks out there really think the terms are synonymous. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Fairchild, Jack <[email protected] > wrote: > I believe you are saying: Calculate the most remote area using the > appropriate method. > For example: A 1500 sq.ft. remote area in a corridor will probably be > more demanding that a corridor calculation, but because it is not an > appropriate method you don't do it. > > Jack Fairchild > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 9:26 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > I am referring to the methods of determining a light hazard remote area. > Room design, area density and corridor are the ones I remember. Each method > is allowed and each will result in a different flow requirement. There is > no requirement to design the sprinkler system to the most demanding. > > > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 6:59 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > Ron, > > Please clarify your statement. Which "methods" are your referring to? > Are you talking about Hazen-Williams vs. Darcy-Weisbach? > > > Jack Fairchild > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 8:45 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > It also supports "not" requiring that the method resulting in the greatest > demand be used. In LH there are many methods of determining the remote area > but no requirement that the most demanding method be used. > > > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic > Phoenix, AZ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 5:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Multiple design methods in one building > > In the Handbook commentary, it states "It is possible for a combination of > design methods to be used in a single building". I perceive the purpose of > this section is to make it the designer's discretion on which approach to > use, so an authority cannot mandate something different after the fact > (unless specifically included as part of a job specification). I think you > are good mixing it up. > > > At 06:59 AM 12/7/2011, you wrote: > >Reading the following from NFPA 13 2010 ed. Does this mean the room > design method cannot be used in an area if we already used the density/area > method in another area? We have a residence with a mechanical penthouse > using the density/area method but the floors below are all residential > units separated by block walls. Are we be allowed to use room design method > for that? > > > > > >11.2.3.1.1 The water supply for sprinklers shall be determined > >*only from one* of the following, at the discretion of the > >designer: > >(1) Density/area curves of Figure 11.2.3.1.1 in accordance > >with the density/area method of 11.2.3.2 > >(2) The room that creates the greatest demand in accordance > >with the room design method of 11.2.3.3 > >(3) Special design areas in accordance with 11.2.3.4 > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/55489866/attachment.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/ea5fee97/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
