You're pushing this Jack. Your first remote area does not refer to sprinkler systems at all and the second is just grids. I'll give you a punchy on one and a point kinda made on two.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Justin Reid <[email protected]>wrote: > You need to put "hydraulically" in front of remote to look at the intent. > It has been shortened to be called the remote area but the intent is to be > the hydraulically remote area. > > Justin Reid > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Fairchild, Jack < > [email protected] > > wrote: > > > That was last month's discussion, but since I'm feeling particularly > > punchy... I'll agree to drop the term "remote area" when NFPA 13 does. > > What's really funny is that NFPA 13 uses it both ways! > > > > 8.17.2.2 > > (1) Buildings located in remote areas that are inaccessible for fire > > department support. > > and > > 22.3.3 > > (15)* Diagram to accompany gridded system calculations to indicate flow > > quantities and directions for lines with sprinklers operating in the > remote > > area. > > > > > > Jack Fairchild > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:30 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Multiple design methods in one building > > > > I really wish we'd just drop the term "remote area" as it only applies > when > > the the hydraulically most demanding area is actually also the most > remote. > > I know what you mean but lots of folks out there really think the terms > > are synonymous. > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Fairchild, Jack < > > [email protected] > > > wrote: > > > > > I believe you are saying: Calculate the most remote area using the > > > appropriate method. > > > For example: A 1500 sq.ft. remote area in a corridor will probably be > > > more demanding that a corridor calculation, but because it is not an > > > appropriate method you don't do it. > > > > > > Jack Fairchild > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 9:26 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > > > > > I am referring to the methods of determining a light hazard remote > area. > > > Room design, area density and corridor are the ones I remember. Each > > method > > > is allowed and each will result in a different flow requirement. There > is > > > no requirement to design the sprinkler system to the most demanding. > > > > > > > > > Ron Fletcher > > > Aero Automatic > > > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 6:59 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > > > > > Ron, > > > > > > Please clarify your statement. Which "methods" are your referring to? > > > Are you talking about Hazen-Williams vs. Darcy-Weisbach? > > > > > > > > > Jack Fairchild > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 8:45 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: Multiple design methods in one building > > > > > > It also supports "not" requiring that the method resulting in the > > greatest > > > demand be used. In LH there are many methods of determining the remote > > area > > > but no requirement that the most demanding method be used. > > > > > > > > > Ron Fletcher > > > Aero Automatic > > > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 5:15 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Multiple design methods in one building > > > > > > In the Handbook commentary, it states "It is possible for a combination > > of > > > design methods to be used in a single building". I perceive the purpose > > of > > > this section is to make it the designer's discretion on which approach > to > > > use, so an authority cannot mandate something different after the fact > > > (unless specifically included as part of a job specification). I think > > you > > > are good mixing it up. > > > > > > > > > At 06:59 AM 12/7/2011, you wrote: > > > >Reading the following from NFPA 13 2010 ed. Does this mean the room > > > design method cannot be used in an area if we already used the > > density/area > > > method in another area? We have a residence with a mechanical penthouse > > > using the density/area method but the floors below are all residential > > > units separated by block walls. Are we be allowed to use room design > > method > > > for that? > > > > > > > > > > > >11.2.3.1.1 The water supply for sprinklers shall be determined > > > >*only from one* of the following, at the discretion of the > > > >designer: > > > >(1) Density/area curves of Figure 11.2.3.1.1 in accordance > > > >with the density/area method of 11.2.3.2 > > > >(2) The room that creates the greatest demand in accordance > > > >with the room design method of 11.2.3.3 > > > >(3) Special design areas in accordance with 11.2.3.4 > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >URL: < > > > > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/55489866/attachment.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > > Stonington, CT > > > 860.535.2080 > > > www.fpdc.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > > Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, > > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/ea5fee97/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/77503b98/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111207/b524fa58/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
