If it were Thanksgiving I'd be thankful for East Coast guys that answer George's questions before I get out of bed.
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:28 AM, George Church <[email protected]>wrote: > It's like reading the directions, isn't it? > FOR PURPOSES OF THIS CODE.... > FOR PURPOSES OF THIS STANDARD...... > > As always, Thanks David and John. > Now I've got something I can work with, and its even familiar and > comfortable. > > George L. Church, Jr., CET > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 12:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Dwelling Unit- 13 vrs IBC defs > > Emphasis in CAPS; > > 2009 IBC > > 201.1 Scope. Unless otherwise expressly stated, the following words and > terms shall, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS CODE, have the meanings shown in this > chapter. > > Continuing on................. > > [F] 903.2.8 Group R. An automatic sprinkler system INSTALLED IN ACCORDANCE > with Section 903.3 shall be provided THROUGHOUT ALL BUILDINGS WITH A GROUP > R FIRE AREA. > > [F] 903.3.1 Standards. Sprinkler systems SHALL BE DESIGNED AND INSTALLED > in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, 903.3.1.2 or 903.3.1.3. > > [F] 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. WHERE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CODE > REQUIRE THAT A BUILDING OR PORTION THEREOF be equipped throughout with an > automatic sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers > shall be installed throughout IN ACCORDANCE with NFPA 13 EXCEPT AS PROVIDED > in Section 903.3.1.1.1. > > [F] 903.3.1.2 NFPA 13R sprinkler systems. Where allowed in buildings of > Group R, up to and including four stories in height, automatic sprinkler > systems shall be installed throughout IN ACCORDANCE WITH NFPA 13R. > > [F] 903.3.1.2.1 Balconies and decks. Sprinkler protection shall be > provided for exterior balconies, decks and ground floor patios of dwelling > units where the building is of Type V construction, provided there is a > roof or deck above. Sidewall sprinklers that are used to protect such areas > shall be permitted to be located such that their deflectors are within 1 > inch (25 mm) to 6 inches (152 mm) below the structural members and a > maximum distance of > 14 inches (356 mm) below the deck of the exterior balconies and decks that > are constructed of open wood joist construction. > > Hope that helps, > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Fire Marshals Office > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or > otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and > approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David > Blackwell > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 12:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Dwelling Unit- 13 vrs IBC defs > > Don't confuse yourself by using terms defined in one code or standard and > applying that to another. > The term is normally only good for that code or standard and are separate. > Use the IBC definition when applying IBC rules and NFPA 13 definition when > applying NFPA 13. > > I can go into detail/legal if you like but this brief explanation keeps it > simple and to the point... > > [If I am wrong or missed something, someone will surely speak up (knowing > the "forumites" who regularly post).] > > > Respectfully, > > > David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State > Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, & Regulation, 141 > Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 > Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] > Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] > Email: [email protected] > Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ > > > Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC > Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and > procedures by visiting our Web site at: > http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:17 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Dwelling Unit- 13 vrs IBC defs > > NFPA 13-'07 defines a dwelling unit in 3.3.7 and specifically calls out > "For > purposes of this standard, dwelling unit includes hotel rooms,..." and > there > is no requirement for cooking facilities. > > 2009 IBC in 202, Definitions, Dwelling Unit. A single unit providing > complete, independent living facilities for one or more persons, including > permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation." > > So while the installation standard clearly states hotel rooms are intended > to be protected as dwelling units, it seems that in order to qualify as > dwelling units under the IBC, permanent cooking facilities must be present, > and building codes trump installation standards. > > So does this mean when designing a system under #13 in a jurisdiction that > adopted the IBC, we can't use dwelling unit rules from 13 in a hotel if the > rooms don't contain a kitchen and bathroom? > ] > It may get cloudy when the IBC continues on to require QR or Residential > sprinklers in Group R and I-1 dwelling units and sleeping units in 903.3.2 > (2). > > > George L. Church, Jr., CET > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, > Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:00 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: NFPA 25 standpipe test > > It's a holiday week...all references below are from NFPA 25. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:54 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: NFPA 25 standpipe test > > ...that is 1998 edition of NFPA 25. sorry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: NFPA 25 standpipe test > > You must flow the system demand at time of design (14:6.3.1.3 2008 ed). The > flow test must occur at the hyd most remote outlets (14:6.3.1.2). You only > need to do one flow test per zone (14:6.3.1.1). Your two sections do not > necessarily mean two zones. > > Note also, if this is for Joint Commission, you will need to go back to the > old codes. To my knowledge, they are enforcing NFPA 101 2000 > edition...this > means the 1998 edition of NFPA 14 is applicable. > > Duane Johnson, PE > Program Manager > Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research > Services National Institutes of Health > 301-496-0487 > > "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Williams [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: NFPA 25 standpipe test > > I am working with a hospital with a total of 9 standpipes. There are > standpipes that are both pre and post 1993. The original building is > partially sprinklered and the new section is fully sprinklered. > > 1. Is the intent of NFPA 25 that multiple standpipes be flowed > simultaneously to meet the 1250 gpm demand? > > 2. Should the two sections of the hospital be flow independent of each > other? > > 3. If yes to 1 and 2, could the new section be flowed as a fully > sprinklered > building (thus 1000 gpm) as opposed to 1250? > > 4. How should i handle pipe schedule standpipes, if any exist? > > I haven't had to deal with 5 year standpipe tests before. > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111230/0e7c912e/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
