To extend Steve's comments, it is necessary to document that valve exists between two lead ins, and why. In an ideal world, this would extend to the water purveyors design and maintenance software. Section valves are reliable, particularly if exercised on schedule, but this valve is outside the owner's control, or even awareness. A water department could easily decide to not repair an "unnecessary" valve that is stuck in the open position.
bv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Leyton" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:06:52 AM Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? I don't disagree with it arbitrarily, just don't approve it unconditionally. I think it depends on how the main in question is supplied by the water system zone source; can each side of the proposed sectional valve location independently supply the demand? If it's symmetrically yes, then I don't oppose that approach. Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martinez, Dewayne Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? I was going to propose the same idea to the AHJ. With the water main in front of the building being supplied from different mains at either end I thought of putting a sectional valve between the two water lead in's to be able to isolate each service. Sounds like you don't agree with that, how come? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? The intent of two laterals being in case of interruption of the municipal water supply. But we've already seen some interesting interps; one project here in San Diego was only bounded by one city main, so they dug up the street, put a sectional valve in the public main between to lateral connections, as justified it as being capable of supply from two different legs of the muni system. Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? Then the IBC requires a connection to two water mains or two connections to one water main so that interruption to service can be isolated so that the water supply will not be interrupted. Section 104.10 can be used by the owner. This gives the building official a provision to grant a modification do due practical difficulties. By lessening compliance with the section above, the modification will not lessen fire protection or life safety, it only lessens reliability. After all, there is an FDC... Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Martinez, Dewayne [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? Complete remodel of the building forcing them to bring it up to current code. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? What has caused the need to go back and sprinkler?? Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? Section 403.3.2 requires a high rise with a fire pump to be connected to a minimum of two water mains. There is a performance based exception however. Section 903.3.5.2 requires an additional "on-site" water supply for new high rise buildings in seismic zones C, D, E or F. The "on-site" water supply is different from the water supply that is brought "to the site" (ie underground water main). There is an exception for existing buildings. The requirement is to increase reliability in the event of a seismic activity. Over to you Steve... Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Martinez, Dewayne [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: High rise- non seismic zone - 2 water supplies? IBC (09ed) sections 403 and 903 I have an existing un-sprinkled high rise building that now needs to be fully sprinkled per NFPA 13 (07ed) and will require a fire pump. I think it will require two sources of water supply but I just want to confirm. Section 403.3 requires a secondary water supply where required by 903.3.5.2. 903.3.5.2 requires 2 sources if I am in a seismic zone, which I am not, but 403.3.2 seems to trump this by requiring a second supply when a fire pump is installed. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks, Dewayne _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
