My trusty 1978 edition allows 1/2 or 3/4 starter nipples when revamping for an arm over. Doesn't have the 4" or less in length proviso. No rule not allowing this in a seismic zone. And bno proviso about weight of pipe.
Brad, In piping manufacturer lingo it is close, shoulder, then the shortest specified length in inches for the given pipe size. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Rod DiBona <[email protected]> wrote: > I haven't looked it up but will. I believe that previous editions mandated > schedule #80. That is what we have always done and I believe that it was > code driven at some point. If I can find it I will post. > > Rod at Rapid > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 9:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Shoulder Nipple > > Schedule 80 is not required or expected. > The Table in 13: 22.4.3.1.1 contains the info on 1/2" pipe specifically > for what we are talking about and it is in schedule 40. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2013, at 10:44 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Gentlemen" > > > > > > As another "old-time" (former) Journeyman Sprinklerfitter (apprentice > starting 1974 GRINNELL), we still recognize the conversion of 1/2" upright > outlets using Schedule 80 shoulder nipples w/reverse 1/2"x1" 90 "head el" > to 1" armover and drop nipple - can't cite 13 requirement, but I always > assumed it was to 'beef up' strain on 1/2" nipple with longer armovers...We > see them on occasion during our inspections. > > > > > > > > Regards to All/Have a Safe Weekend... > > > > > > > > Jerry** > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Jerry D. Watts, SFPE > > President & CoFounder > > ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd. > > Santa Fe/Albuquerque New Mexico > > (800) 503.1961 nationwide > > > > > > **New Mexico-Licensed Journeyman Sprinklerfitter #08228 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MPhelps <[email protected]> > > To: sprinklerforum <[email protected]> > > Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2013 8:33 am > > Subject: Re: Shoulder Nipple > > > > > > Has anyone considered the trade off presented with the schedule 80 > > nipple between added structural strength and actual delivered density? > Just thinkin' > > Mark at Aero > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Charles Thurston [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 01:56 PM > > To: [email protected] > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: Shoulder Nipple > > > > Hello All, > > > > For some reason we still have about half a box of 1/2" x Close Sch 80 > > nipples in the warehouse I ordered a while back. I remember seeing > > that somewhere but can't find it in NFPA 13 2010 or 2013. I know I > > would not have spent the extra money for them if I did not have to... > > > > Friday, September 6, 2013, 9:41:27 AM, you wrote: > > > >> As an "Old Time Fitter" from the early 70's to the 90's before I got > >> into design, I was taught to use Sch 80 nipples for the additional > >> strength that they had over the standard Sch 40. > > > >> On 9/6/2013 5:53 AM, Bobby Gillett wrote: > >>> Duane, > > > >>> As I mentioned, I was going off of memory. Not sure where exactly the > Sch. > > > >>> 80 came from, maybe it was an old requirement for seismic areas > >>> before the > > > >>> limitation of 1" diameter nipples was enforced?? May have been a > >>> company requirement before that as where I was before was in a > >>> "seismic zone"...not quite sure. Anybody else out there ever hear of > that? > > > > > > > >>> Bobby Gillett > >>> *Living Water Fire Protection, LLC* > >>> 1160 McKenzie Rd. > >>> Cantonment, FL 32533 > >>> (850) 937-1850 > >>> livingwaterfp.com <http://livingwaterfp.com/> > > > > > >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] < > >>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>>> They are using an existing 1/2" outlet (likely an upright) to > >>>> supply a relocated sprinkler (likely a pendent)...completely > legitimate. > > > >>>> 8.15.20.4.1 (2013) When pipe schedule systems are revamped, a > nipple > >>>> not exceeding 4 in. (100 mm) in length shall be permitted to be > >>>> installed in the branch line fitting. > >>>> 8.15.20.4.2 All piping other than the nipple permitted in > 8.15.20.4.1 > >>>> and 8.15.20.4.3 shall be a minimum of 1 in. (25 mm) in diameter in > >>>> accordance with Figure 8.15.20.4.2. > >>>> 8.15.20.4.3 When it is necessary to pipe two new ceiling sprinklers > >>>> from an existing outlet in an overhead system, the use of a nipple > >>>> not exceeding 4 in. (100 mm) in length and of the same pipe thread > >>>> size as the existing outlet shall be permitted, provided that a > >>>> hydraulic calculation verifies that the design flow rate will be > >>>> achieved in accordance with Figure 8.15.20.4.3. > >>>> 8.15.20.4.4 Where an armover is attached to connect to a > sprinkler, the > >>>> use of pipe nipples less than 1 in. (25 mm) in diameter shall not > >>>> be permitted where seismic design is required on the system. > > > >>>> By the way, where did the sch 80 requirement come from? I have > >>>> never been able to locate that in code. > > > >>>> Duane Johnson, PE > >>>> Program Manager > >>>> Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research > >>>> Services National Institutes of Health > >>>> 301-496-0487 > > > >>>> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" > > > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Bobby Gillett [mailto:[email protected]] > >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 10:46 PM > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: Shoulder Nipple > > > >>>> Hoping they are requesting sch 80 and they are not in a seismic zone. > > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > > > >>>> On Sep 5, 2013, at 9:12 PM, "JSM Fire Pro" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >>>>> You’re a third party glancing over a bill of materials for an > >>>>> add/relocate day job. You notice one of the line items is calling > >>>>> for > >>>> several ½” > >>>>> shoulder nipples. > > > > > > > >>>>> What goes through your mind? > > > > > > > >>>>> J. Scott Mitchell, PE > > > >>>>> B&W Technical Services Pantex > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespr > >>>>> inkl > >>>>> er.org > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > > > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkler.org _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > > > >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri > >>>> nkler.org > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> kler.org > > > > > >>> ----- > >>> No virus found in this message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6641 - Release Date: > >>> 09/05/13 > > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink > >> ler.org > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Charles mailto:[email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
