If all these things should have been designed to a higher hazard after the fact why wasn't it before? Because the pump was presumed to operate during a fire, not be shut down by the FAP. Where was the money on this one? Who was getting sued? And who'' ass was being covered or exposed by these "experts?"
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Tony Silva <[email protected]> wrote: > I worked on a school that had a platform in the gym, a few feet above the > ground, but also named "stage" on the architectural drawings. A fire > started at the roof directly above this "stage". The entire school burned > down causing a $13 million damage. A report was published by the then chief > inspector of NFPA. In this report he mentions that the fire pump stopped > working as the fire alarm shut the "non-essential circuits including the > fire pump". Then the emergency generator kicked in after some delay, and > that too stopped after a few minutes. These facts are mentioned casually > but not included in the "possible causes" chapter at the end of the report. > One of the possible causes given was, the "stage" area was designed to > light hazard, and should have been ordinary hazard. Incidentally, there was > another report by an "expert" which mentioned nothing on the fire pump or > the stage, but said the attic where the fire started had so much wood, it > should have been designed to ordin > ary hazard group 2. > > Tony > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:35:29 AM > Subject: Re: Stages > > According to an AHJ I had to deal with once, it was a stage if the > architect wrote stage and a platform if he wrote platform. This opened up > so many possibilities. > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 6:59 AM, Cahill, Christopher > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > It's defined twice in IBC > > > > Inversely in the definition for PLATFORM. A raised area within a building > > used for worship, the presentation of music, plays or other > entertainment; > > the head table for special guests; the raised area for lecturers and > > speakers; boxing and wrestling rings; theater-in-the round stages; and > > similar purposes wherein there are no overhead hanging curtains, drops, > > scenery or stage effects other than lighting and sound. > > > > And STAGE. A space within a building utilized for entertainment or > > presentations, which includes overhead hanging curtains, drops, scenery > or > > stage effects other than lighting and sound. > > > > So do you have curtains, drops, scenery or other stage effects? Note > size > > does not matter, storage underneath does not matter when defining whether > > you have a stage or not. > > > > Chris Cahill, PE* > > Senior Fire Protection Engineer > > Burns & McDonnell > > 8201 Norman Center Drive > > Bloomington, MN 55437 > > Phone: 952.656.3652 > > Fax: 952.229.2923 > > [email protected] > > www.burnsmcd.com > > > > Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For > > *Registered in: MN > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 8:40 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Stages > > > > IFC 905.3.4 ('06 ed) kicks in the hose valve requirement at greater than > > 1000 sqft. So I guess a "stage" can be under 1000 sqft. but the hose > valves > > wouldn't be required. > > > > Ron F > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard > > Lindner > > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 4:46 AM > > To: sprinklerforum@lists firesprinkler. org > > Subject: Re: Stages > > > > You need to use the appropriate building code to determine platform vs > > stage for this area of the country. If stage, square footage and ability > to > > store under will also come into play. > > > > Richard > > On Oct 10, 2013 7:06 AM, "Craig Leadbetter" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > At what point does a stage become a stage rather than just a raised > > > platform? > > > > > > I am working on a project that is an old school that is being > > > converted to apartments, however a portion of the building will remain > > > as an educational classification with a school "stage" in the > > > gymnasium portion of the building. > > > > > > Should I be looking at this as a full blown "stage" and all of the > > > hose stations and such or am I over thinking? I am trying to eliminate > > > the need for a fire pump. > > > > > > No, I can't ask the engineer. we basically got an x through the > > > drawings and says provide fire protection to meet code. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Craig Leadbetter > > > > > > Safeguard of Marquette > > > PO Box 116 > > > Marquette, MI 49855 > > > > > > > > > (P) 906-475-9955 > > > (F) 906-475-5474 > > > (C) 906-362-5393 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > > er.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
