A few years ago while at URS I was part of a team doing hangars for Executive 
Jet, Nationwide, US Air, Tenn. Nat'l Guard, Proctor and Gamble and others, a 
bunch of them.  When we started NFPA 409 was only mentioned in a list of 
related applicable codes.  IBC 412. 4 through .6  did not exist.  IBC 412.4.6 
now lists what cannot happen in a hangar without foam.  I strongly advised 
getting a copy of 
IBC 412 with the Commentary. It is based on 409 but affords greater general 
clarity via the Commentary. Details remain in 409.
  
I've not seen a mention of draft curtains in the dialogue below.  As I recall 
these establish zones based upon allowable fire areas per construction type and 
a 75' circle 'sets off' the zones. Worst case is an interior zone (not left or 
right perimeter) where the 75' causes three zones to activate.  Water 
calculations were based on this.

There were several ways to deliver foam, overhead gets into aircraft and 
cannons can be obstructed or otherwise problematic.   The preferred method 
after it was developed with the air force was the
'pop-up' sprinklers in the drainage trench.  It took a couple of years to 
garner approval.  Sneaky aircraft prefer this method.  This system covers the 
floor where most fuel fires originate and drains away quickly if the floor is 
properly sloped and creates less mess.  A lot less.

There was a video in circulation many years ago of an overly concentrated AFFF 
- water mix filling a hangar.  Ellsworth AFB as I recall.  Its real.

For the more advanced and fool proof systems IR/FR detectors were used and 
abort buttons were located in numerous places.

Be aware of the pump redundancy requirement.

Effluent may be an issue.  We drained foam areas only through a weir with 
automatic sluice gates, normally open to storm through an OWS, when activated 
the OWS was by passed and the mess went to a rubber lined pond or a lined 
concrete tank for containment and gradual release to the sanitary sewer 
subsequent to communication with the local sewer district.  AFFF kills good 
bugs in a treatment plant.  

At one point sharing the effluent pond came up and with the help of actuaries 
determining the likelihood of two hangars on the same airfield in the same 72 
hour period was one to the negative eleventh.

Testing involves a dump unless otherwise accepted without it by the AHJ.  
Usually they've not seen such an event so plan on it.  If its overhead, cover 
the walls with plastic well secured.

ROBERT HOLLAND Jr. AIA, CDT, LEED AP, PMP
ARCHITECTS / ENGINEERS / INTERIOR DESIGNERS
7400 West Campus Rd.   Suite 150   New Albany, OH  43054   www.shremshock.com
t 614 545 4550 x 286     f 614 545 4555     [email protected]
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Don Lowry
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 10:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Foam & Hangers

Chris,
I believe this has already been hashed out with the owner / city but I have 
pointed out the IBC quote in case they missed it and will await a response, 
before I move forward in the design/pricing.
Thanks for all your help.

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 9:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Foam & Hangers

If you meet the letter of the code the City doesn't get a vote. AHJ don't have 
to approve exception unless there is something to the effect of 
'exception...where approved by the building official....'.  In this case the 
exception doesn't say where approved. 

Are you storing only transient aircraft in a group II hangar?  Are there 
separate repair facilities? If that is the case you don't need foam no matter 
what the AHJ wants.  Now if you are storing aircraft based there (not
transient) for example you don't get the exception and the power position 
shifts to the AHJ.  There really aren't a lot of these kinds of hangars so you 
probably don't get the exception.  I was just offering another way out.


I've had a couple cities favorably rule based aircraft and light maintenance 
still met the exception thus no foam. But that creative interpretation of
the meaning and intent is up to the AHJ.    

Chris Cahill, PE*
Associate Fire Protection Engineer
Burns & McDonnell
Phone:  952.656.3652
Fax:  952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
*Registered in: MN


Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Don Lowry
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Foam & Hangers

Thanks to all for the response, I was just verifying I was reading that
correctly about the entire hanger being calced at once.

Chris,
Thanks for that reference, I will point that out to the project.  Awhile
back the builder told me they had found an exception in the IBC where it
didn't need foam but the city was not accepting that exception.  I will ask
if this is the case?

Thanks,
Don Lowry

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Foam & Hangers

Seems to me it reads all 16,900 sq.ft. which is not typical with multiple
systems in our world.  But do you even need foam?  See IBC:

[F] 412.4.6 Fire suppression.
Aircraft hangars shall be provided with a fire suppression system designed
in accordance with NFPA 409, based upon the classification for the hangar
given in Table 412.4.6.

Exception: Where a fixed base operator has separate repair facilities on
site, Group II hangars operated by a fixed base operator used for storage of
transient aircraft only shall have a fire suppression system, but the system
is exempt from foam requirements.

Chris Cahill, PE*
Associate Fire Protection Engineer
Burns & McDonnell
Phone:  952.656.3652
Fax:  952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
*Registered in: MN


Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For


-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Don Lowry
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 4:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Foam & Hangers

Ref 2004 NFPA-409

 

Situation:

Group II hanger

Option # 4, Closed-Head Foam-Water Sprinkler System 

 

16,900 Sq Ft total hanger size

 

So, per 7.6.4 we'll need 2 systems (8K and 8900) respectively so as not to
exceed 15k per system.

 

7.6.2 states minimum design density .16 gpm/sqft over entire storage and
service area.

 

Question; 

Based on 7.6.2  I've got to calc both systems at the same time, for the
entire hanger area. (lots of water).   Am I interpreting this correctly or
does this mean calc the entire area of each systems individual floor area?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Don Lowry

 

 

 

 

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