105 seconds for fire and sprinkler at gap intersections, minus 94 seconds for no gaps equals 11 second delay due to the presence of gaps.
I am confident that an extended effort, using the same pass/fail criteria as the original Fire Research Foundation Report would result in a positive consensus, i.e., holes for drops would not have to be cut in the cloud panels. Thanks, Brad. On Jun 1, 2016 4:15 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> wrote: > My pleasure Nicky, thanks for saying! > > Coincidentally, I just added a gap lengthwise in the x direction. So now > the sprinkler will be at the intersection of (2) gaps, and the fire will be > under an intersection. > I'll know in about 14 hours how much additional delay that causes > (according to the model anyway). > > Brad > On Jun 1, 2016 4:01 PM, "Nicky Marshall" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thankyou very much for taking the time to do that Brad. >> >> >> >> *Nicky Marshall* >> >> *Southern Regional Manager* >> >> *PROTECH DESIGN LIMITED* >> >> *Specialist Fire Protection Consultants* >> >> *Phone: *+64 (0)3 579 5577 *Mobile: *+64 (0)21 433 488 *Email:* >> [email protected] *Skype: *nicky-marshall *Web:* >> www.protechdesign.co.nz >> >> *Address:*105A Alabama Rd, Redwoodtown, Blenheim 7201, NZ *Postal: *PO >> Box 4022, Redwood Village, Blenheim 7242, NZ >> >> >> >> *From:* Brad Casterline [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Monday, 30 May 2016 11:12 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Cloud ceilings & sprinklers in gaps >> >> >> >> Excellent post Nicky; very good questions and observations. >> I agree with what Mark S. said and suggest a few additional >> considerations: >> 1) Use QR 155F cloud level sprinklers spaced slightly closer than the >> plenum spinklers. >> 2) Use QR 200F plenum sprinklers and avoid locating them directly above >> the gaps. >> >> I modelled a piece of your scenario - - (4) panels with (3) gaps 'left to >> right' at 3.5m height, and a continuous structural ceiling at 4m. >> On the floor below the far left gap I put a 1,700 kW/m^2, t^2, FAST fire. >> The panels are 1.1m wide and the gaps are .05m wide. Centered in the far >> right gap is a QR, 155F, with a bulb height of 3.475m. Between 0 and 3m >> height I used .05m^3 grid cells, and between 3 and 4m I used .025m^3. >> Activation time was 99 sec. (14 hour calc time). >> Then I eliminated the gaps and ran it that way. >> Activation time was 94 sec. >> >> This would be an ideal scenario to model in detail using the Cloud >> Ceiling Study you mentioned as the template. In fact you can copy/paste the >> sample input file at the end of the report (from pdf to notepad), 'fix' a >> couple things that get lost in that translation, and start tweeking to your >> physical dimensions. Your clouds are not flat, but they are coplanar, and >> the plenum depth is consistent. >> >> wbr, >> >> Brad Casterline >> >> On May 29, 2016 3:48 PM, "Nicky Marshall" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> 10 bays formed with Laminated timber beams, each with 24 panels. >> >> >> >> *Nicky Marshall* >> >> *Southern Regional Manager* >> >> *PROTECH DESIGN LIMITED* >> >> *Specialist Fire Protection Consultants* >> >> *Phone: *+64 (0)3 579 5577 *Mobile: *+64 (0)21 433 488 *Email:* >> [email protected] *Skype: *nicky-marshall *Web:* >> www.protechdesign.co.nz >> >> *Address:*105A Alabama Rd, Redwoodtown, Blenheim 7201, NZ *Postal: *PO >> Box 4022, Redwood Village, Blenheim 7242, NZ >> >> >> >> *From:* Matthew J Willis [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Saturday, 28 May 2016 1:33 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Cloud ceilings & sprinklers in gaps >> >> >> >> How many clouds? >> >> I ask because technically sprinklers are not required under them. You >> stated 3’-6”.. >> >> >> >> R/ >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> *From:* Sprinklerforum [ >> mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Nicky >> Marshall >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2016 10:30 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Cloud ceilings & sprinklers in gaps >> >> >> >> I would appreciate if anyone has some thoughts on this arrangement: >> >> >> >> ~4m (13ft) high roof, ~3.5m (11.5 ft) high ceiling. Both slope 3 degrees. >> >> The ‘ceiling’ is to be made up of many Autex acoustic panels 1.1 x 2.3m >> (3.6 x 7.5 ft), non-combustible, suspended with 50mm (2 in) gaps around >> them. >> >> There will be sprinklers in the roof space because there are cable trays >> with loads of combustible cables. >> >> They architect wants to put the sprinklers in the 50mm gaps to avoid >> cutting holes in the acoustic panels. >> >> >> >> Whilst we are designing to NZS 4541, this code is silent on cloud >> ceilings or anything like this, so I am looking for guidance from other >> sources. >> >> I note NFPA 13:2016 clause 8.15.24 gives some guidance and it seems to >> indicate our ceiling arrangement would not require sprinklers above the >> clouds or have any specific sprinkler location requirements. >> >> I am also aware of the Fire Protection Research Foundation report on >> cloud ceilings. This seemed to suggest that each cloud must have its own >> sprinkler – but doesn’t test with such small gaps – and recommends further >> study in this area where coverage can be achieved without sprinklers in >> every cloud. >> >> >> >> Three questions: >> >> Are the gaps small enough to just call this a ceiling – not a cloud >> ceiling (what size gap affects the plume flow enough to make a difference)? >> >> Is it acceptable to locate the sprinklers within the small gaps, or will >> this location significantly affect their operation? >> >> Do we have to cumulatively flow sprinklers above and below the ceiling, >> or since NFPA permits this arrangement to not have roof space sprinklers >> (suggesting heat flow into this space is not significant?), this would not >> be required? >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> >> >> *Nicky Marshall* >> >> *Southern Regional Manager* >> >> *PROTECH DESIGN LIMITED* >> >> *Specialist Fire Protection Consultants* >> >> *Phone: *+64 (0)3 579 5577 *Mobile: *+64 (0)21 433 488 *Email:* >> [email protected] *Skype: *nicky-marshall *Web:* >> www.protechdesign.co.nz >> >> *Address:*105A Alabama Rd, Redwoodtown, Blenheim 7201, NZ *Postal: *PO >> Box 4022, Redwood Village, Blenheim 7242, New Zealand >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >>
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