A.8.15.7.5 Short-term transient storage, such as that for delivered packages, and the presence of planters, newspaper machines, and so forth, should not be considered for storage or handling of combustibles. *** The presence of combustible furniture on balconies for occupant use should not require sprinkler protection.***
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: > John: > > I was responding earlier from home and now, seated at my incredibly > cluttered desk, have reviewed 8.15.7 (2013 ed.). As tactfully as I can > say this, you’re reaching. For very hard-to-grasp fruit. I sincerely > doubt you’re going to get any fire or building official to see your way to > applying an exception that describes a non-combustible envelope with wood > framing and sprinklered interstitial spaces to a vinyl or nylon canopy. > > > > In reality – and I’ve had to walk this line hundreds of times here in fair > weather California – the underlying reason that you’re in pickle and the > owner wants to exclude sprinklers is because they don’t want to deal with > the trouble and expense of designing a canopy frame that will withstand the > weight of its cover, water-filled sprinkler pipe and wind shear. Out here, > you can add the applied horizontal force of seismic bracing as well. In > cold weather climates, there’s the challenge of having to make the system > dry, but often al fresco dining areas are built like screen rooms with hard > framing above and around, but that’s a different story. > > > > Apologies for shamelessly pimping my business model, but if the architect > and owner had been indoctrinated (inoculated) regarding the need to > sprinkler such spaces early in the project (like, DESIGN PHASE), you > wouldn’t inherit this interpretive challenge that puts you at risk > financially. One of the reasons I don’t miss contracting is that as a > consultant, I’m not put in the unenviable and uncomfortable position of > lobbying against sprinklers. Why wouldn’t we (proactive industry types) > want to protect areas where people are eating and drinking, and especially > where they are potentially drinking alcoholic beverages, by candlelight and > in some states still, smoking? > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Leyton > *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 6:16 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > I suggest you run those by your local building and fire officials. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: John Irwin <[email protected]> > > Date: 4/17/17 6:00 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > I would disagree with this unless you can direct me to some more > information. 8.15.7.3(2) even goes on to spell out Light and Ordinary > Hazard Occupancy situations where sprinklers can be omitted. > > > > *John Irwin - CET* > > *Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers* > > *Critical System Solutions, LLC* > > > *Licence Number: FPC16-000053 *Cell: 813.618.2781 <(813)%20618-2781> > > Email: [email protected] > > > > [image: certifiedmark300 - small] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Steve > Leyton > *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 8:53 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > Overhang exceptions only apply when the area below is not used for storage > or handling of combustibles or otherwise classified as occupied by the > applicable building code or building official. As Spicey would say, > restaurant seating areas are assembly occupancy, PERIOD! > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: John Irwin <[email protected]> > > Date: 4/17/17 5:45 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > I’m using 13 8.15.7 to argue that if the fabric covering the steel frame > is non-combustible than perhaps the sprinklers are not required. > > > > > > *John Irwin - CET* > > *Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers* > > *Critical System Solutions, LLC* > > > *Licence Number: FPC16-000053 *Cell: 813.618.2781 <(813)%20618-2781> > > Email: [email protected] > > > > [image: certifiedmark300 - small] > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]. > org <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Steve > Leyton > *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 8:33 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > Often, we try to read the standards backwards. The way that NFPA 13 is > written, it requires sprinklers everywhere. What the client is hopeful of > is an exception but I'm pretty sure they are not going to find one for this > particular application. If I'm taking the contrary point of view, I would > say that instead of looking for a section that requires sprinklers here or > there, show me where it says I don't have to put sprinklers over this > occupied area that is part of the use of the protected premises. > > > > > > Steve Leyton > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: John Irwin <[email protected]> > > Date: 4/17/17 4:11 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Covered Restaurant Seating Area > > > > Here’s the situation. Existing restaurant seating area covered by steel > frame and vinyl or nylon tarp. 100% open. Protected with sprinklers. > > > > Additional covered seating area being added that will be steel frame but > insulated aluminum panel roof. 100% open. > > > > Client doesn’t believe sprinklers are required and wants the existing > sprinklers under the vinyl canopy removed. > > > > Can someone direct me to code references? > > > > > > *John Irwin* > > *Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers * > > *Critical System Solutions, LLC* > > > *License Number: FPC16-000053 *2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 > St. Petersburg, FL 33716 > Office: 727.209.5122 <(727)%20209-5122> > > Fax: 727.209.5126 <(727)%20209-5126> > > Cell: 813.618.2781 <(813)%20618-2781> > > Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler. > org > >
_______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
