That makes sense. The problem that we’ve had is that our “company standard” has been the Hilti HDI or HDI-P, neither of which (I believe) carry a listing for cracked concrete.
Your comment does beg me to ask this question though: If all concrete should be considered cracked concrete, then how does a product get a listing only for uncracked concrete? Since that product would not have any values for cracked concrete, are you suggesting (unofficially of course) that said product should not be used in any scenario? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 8:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Drop In Anchors for Seismic Kyle - One caution for you. When looking at any kind of anchor in concrete they should be submitted with the values for "cracked concrete." One of the many concepts I've come to understand is that over time all concrete will have developed cracking, and any structural engineer or plan reviewer who doesn't take that into account is not using the best information. As I am a TC member please see the disclaimer below. Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 Escondido, California 92025 Phone 760-745-6181 Visit the website<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.parsleyconsulting.com_&d=DwMDaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=B5fjnAqj4baROsxykAjUG7kdvCjqXxl989O_0RV2nKc&s=ALpYTlYlFx4-ECoku-xt4EH__i3QIbYwhwOYsbMAilM&e=> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services It should be noted that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA Automatic Sprinkler System Hanging and Bracing Committee in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA or its Committees On 05/07/2018 7:55 AM, Kyle.Montgomery wrote: Now that looks promising. Thanks guys. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rocci 3 Cetani Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 7:41 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Drop In Anchors for Seismic Was just about to recommend this one! Only one I can seem to find that’s rated for cracked concrete, lots of help on those PT jobs there the anchor wasn’t set correctly or changes are needed Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 93037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 F-(408) 776-1590 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> www.norcalfire.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.norcalfire.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=wfwlRznhjdLZAIf7BikjmnzEd5-ExjFyJP97xB__amY&s=ilbMYdUfDRlK1-PWm7RceuVQVBWbgVi6amwntJKzIWA&e=> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of cw bamford Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 7:37 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Drop In Anchors for Seismic Have you looked at DeWalts Mini-Undercut+ anchor is an internally threaded, self-undercutting anchor designed for performance in cracked and uncracked concrete On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: So, what did you find, Brad? I've not had luck being able to use drop-ins in seismic areas. Seems like there is always a roadblock with lack of ICC report, or not being acknowledged in COLA (for Los Angeles), or not being appropriate for 'cracked concrete' scenarios. Did you find an avenue that allows them? -Kyle M -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 5, 2018 2:43 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Drop In Anchors for Seismic Hello again. I found was I was looking for and it appears my fears were unfounded -- I didn't want to go through all the calculations satisfying 13 only to discover 'nobody makes it'. Like the chicken / egg question -- tc members write rules / manufacturers make things to satisfy rules. I think with sway bracing it is egg / chicken. Brad Quoting [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>: > Hello! > > This is not a pressing issue. > > I am having trouble finding manufacturer's literature for above subject. > I want to know if, for example, listed for Seismic requires minimum > 4000 psi medium concrete and minimum diameter and length to see if I > can eliminate some of the options in 13 for prying factor and max > loads. > > Thanks, > > Brad > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkle > r.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__r.org-5Flistinfo.cgi-5Fsprinklerforum-2D2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=wfwlRznhjdLZAIf7BikjmnzEd5-ExjFyJP97xB__amY&s=l1b7tGLjtMM9V0sxPreuVVBo8C7LC9AOIL6ZXLWeTL4&e=>&d=DwICAg&c=wn3mZ > QLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=yrdN > X83d8MbcZv8lzu7dg6zwjeaZ428y9qO9kIoWV0E&s=ks_1O-FpbukfZQZe5xBgbSung2IY > MLzznH0dcU6T0z0&e= _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwICAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=yrdNX83d8MbcZv8lzu7dg6zwjeaZ428y9qO9kIoWV0E&s=ks_1O-FpbukfZQZe5xBgbSung2IYMLzznH0dcU6T0z0&e= _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=wfwlRznhjdLZAIf7BikjmnzEd5-ExjFyJP97xB__amY&s=kHqiMsbm1_873iyNk5Eju0O-yIJeo6XAMOnSzlWjkzM&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMDaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=B5fjnAqj4baROsxykAjUG7kdvCjqXxl989O_0RV2nKc&s=9-UXgb3lHFjPWeYmUW0iX85OJ1X9r7GZ4uJQF9wytoQ&e=>
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