To add to Ch Blackwell’s comments, at start of fire plan review one task is fire flow calc’s. This is to determine in part minimum water required from the municipal water system, at 20 psi, number and spacing of hydrants, based on type of construction, size of building and so on. The sprinkler credit is massive. This credit requires sprinklers throughout, as appropriate for 13-R or 13.
Best. Bruce Verhei > On Jan 31, 2020, at 06:20, Pete Schwab via Sprinklerforum > <[email protected]> wrote: > > NFPA 13R has gone the extra mile and defined what sprinklered throughout > should mean > > > <image001.png> > > Peter Schwab > VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies > > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. > 222 Capitol Court > Ocoee, Fl 34761 > > Mobile: (407) 468-8248 > Direct: (407) 877-5570 > Fax: (407) 656-8026 > > www.waynefire.com > > <image002.jpg> > > <image003.png> > > I sleep in a sprinklered home, do you? > > > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of David Blackwell via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: David Blackwell <[email protected]>; Nick Maneen > <[email protected]>; 'Prahl, Craig/GVL' <[email protected]>; 'Ed > Kramer' <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] IBC "throughout" > > As Craig indicated, omitting sprinklers when there is not an exception either > in the applicable IBC code or the applicable referenced NFPA standard will > disqualify you from being considered full sprinklered throughout the building > which is needed to take certain ICC tradeoffs... like an extra story height. > > Respectfully, > > David Blackwell > > David Blackwell, P.E. > Chief Engineer > (803)896-9833 > > Office of State Fire Marshal > 141 Monticello Trail | Columbia, SC 29203 > http://statefire.llr.sc.gov/ > (803)896-9800 > > "Our firefighting starts with plan review..." > > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Nick Maneen via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:34 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Nick Maneen <[email protected]>; 'Prahl, Craig/GVL' > <[email protected]>; 'Ed Kramer' <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] IBC "throughout" > > *** SCDLLR NOTICE *** > > · This email is from an external email address. Please use caution when > deciding whether to open any attachments or when clicking links. > · Personally Identifiable Information (PII) should not be included in e-mail > text or attachments. Do not save or transmit PII unencrypted. > > To clarify, because I think many misunderstand this, throughout would be in > accordance with the appropriate standard. For example, it would not require > additional sprinklers in pantries in a 13R building or sprinklers above a > ceiling in a non-combustible 13 building. I have had AHJs in the past try to > start adding sprinklers where the standard allows them to be omitted because > they don’t understand. > > Taking the exception for alternate means of protection that Craig mentions > below may be fine with the adopted fire code and local AHJ but it is not in > compliance with the standard. > > Nick Maneen, SET > c 704.791.7789 > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 3:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL; Ed Kramer > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] IBC "throughout" > > When the IBC/IFC doesn’t provide a specific definition we are told (ref. 2018 > IFC) 201.4 Terms not defined. Where terms are not defined > through the methods authorized by this section, such terms shall have > ordinarily accepted meanings such as the context implies. Merriam Webster’s > Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, shall be considered as providing > ordinarily accepted meanings. > > Throughout means throughout. > > We’ve just been through this definition issue with a local architect. > Omission of sprinklers in a Control room with Sapphire provided is acceptable > as an alternative by the AHJ but the building loses all advantages or > allowances that are given to a fully sprinklered building since taking out > sprinklers and substituting a gaseous system no longer qualifies as being > sprinklered throughout. Basically any part of the code that allows you to do > something a little more risky or bigger, higher, wider or of greater quantity > or whatever based on a fully sprinklered building or where sprinklers are > installed throughout, now goes away and you can’t do those things. > > The Commentary spells this out in great detail. 2018, IFC Commentary, > 903.1.1. > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Ed Kramer via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 2:38 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Ed Kramer <[email protected]> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] IBC "throughout" > > There are countless sections in the IBC that say sprinklers shall be “ . . > .installed throughout . .” or “. . .provided throughout . .” or “. .equipped > throughout . .” or something similar. But I don’t’ see where the IBC tells > me what “throughout” means. I’ve assumed it meant sprinklers in all areas > that the applicable NFPA standard (NFPA 13 in this case) requires them, but > not in areas that the applicable NFPA standard allows them to be omitted. > I’ve learned, since the IBC doesn’t define the term, there are jurisdictions > that define it differently – more specifically they don’t recognize the > omissions that NFPA 13 allows, only the exempt locations listed in IBC > section 903.3.1.1.1. > > Is anyone aware of an IBC document that would shed some light on this? I’ve > found a number of articles from consultants, associations, etc., but > something directly from the IBC would carry a lot more weight. > > Ed Kramer > Bamford Fire Sprinkler > > > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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