On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Gonzalo Peña-Castellanos <
[email protected]> wrote:
> First of all, thanks for sharing your views on the issues I raised,
>
> I really appreciate all your comments and input and Spyder greatly
> benefits from them.
>
> *I know all this are personal opinions but I would like for you to always *
> *look at Spyder through the eyes of a new user, not a developer,*
> *not a hacker, not an old time user.*
>
Why, I have been using spyder since it had a different name, and I don't
want it to become "newbie only".
Even new users turn into old users after a few months and want to GTD.
I don't disagree with improvements for new users, but most of the usage is
by old users.
("You learn it once and use it the rest of your life." )
>
> Now on the issues raised
>
> *Template*
> Sorry I needed to elaborate more on this, that was the "old time user"
> talking!
>
> I really like the suggestion from André, we could have some "standard"
> templates,
> and we could even allow for easy creation of more templates.
>
> This way you could tailor your default templates.
>
> - Blank
> - Scientific Stack template
>
> I am aware of the weirdness of the boilerplate, I was unaware of it
> for a long time, but when I started making my own modules it all
> made sense. I also know it is hard to teach what it does and why
> it look so weird BUT is something worth getting straight from the
> beginning, no?
>
> Dumping import in the namespace is relative... templates are meant for
> the editor and erasing lines is easier than writing
>
> *PEP*
> I am well aware of the optional quality of PEP in the python world.
> I was also unaware of PEP for a while and my scripts looked pretty
> bad (hell maybe they still do!) but once I learned about my code
> really looks clean to the point, that I type it like that and the
> "annoyance"
> is minimal. Would not this be something to foster in new generations?
> If you "annoy" them at the beginning you might actually make clean
> python programmers as a side effect, is that something bad to wish for ;) ?
>
> As André, I also have a small background in teaching Python (with Spyder)
> and this is something needed
>
> The removing of trailing and empty lines is what gets triggered often in
> PEP8,
> mostly because autoindent should remove and empty space if you hit enter
> twice, so that this indented empty lines would not get generated.
>
> This really would benefit the new comers and people teaching them
>
The automatic pep-8 tools are pretty bad, too much enforcement of
questionable rules.
scipy has an automatic check of PRs for pep-8 with lots of exceptions and
still there are weird things.
The main things I don't like are some of the whitespace and optional
indentation rules.
I'm using spyder mainly for initial development of new code and scripts and
the error markers are very useful. Having pep-8 automatically included
would be just a distraction.
I still run pep-8 checks from time to time ignoring all the false positive,
same with pylint.
http://bugs.python.org/issue18472?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer43924&utm_medium=facebook#msg193909
>
> *Online help*
> André raises a good point, but it looks so ugly!!! any alternative to this?
> maybe styling the output with a custom css to make it look consistent
> and pretty with Spyder then??
>
> *Object inspector*
> Yes I see the point, I still miss it how it was before :(
>
> *Language*
> I agree with André, you should be able to ste the language to whatever
> you want and not get any "unexpected" stuff by using LANG defaults.
>
> *Anaconda*
> I would argue anaconda is the present. The thing is that is Windows
> for better or worse will still remain the OS of choice of institutions
> worldwide and most new people will come from a windows background
> so we should strive to make this the default.
>
> For a linux user that only uses Linux, and learn linux 5 years ago,
> fine, you know how to hack away in linux, and will use apt to do
> everything
>
> For the new and recent linux user (ubuntu, mint... etc..) with a pretty
> interface and no command line needed (in general).. anaconda is also
> great.
>
> For the cross platform user, anaconda IS A MUST!
>
> If people have not work on science with numpy scipy, mpi etc on windows
> then the argument of "pip and virtual env is enough" will never be
> backwards.
> Pip is a great tool and still needed, virtual_env is pretty useless if you
> go
> outside of Python only libraries, I know is quick and easy.
>
> Even on Linux and trying to share your work with only pip and virtual env
> wont do. The new projects features could immensely benefit if we used conda
> environments as a core of it.
>
> Here is an idea. We also have Minconda
> <http://conda.pydata.org/miniconda.html> available.
>
> Should we create a custom installer with minconda + Spyder + numpy + scipy
> +
> optional but very usefull dependencies on Spyder? We could even ask for the
> help at conitnuum.
>
> It would not be so heavy as anaconda and it could carry everything needed
> and
> it could already leverage conda for projects and the installation of
> packages.
>
> Whats more, conda allows for installing R packages now (in beta testing)
> so we
> could potentially add an R console to Spyder for people still needing
> R!!!!!!!
>
I think spyder should stay an IDE and stay out of the packaging business,
even if it provides optional support.
I'm on Windows I initially got python-xy for this notebook, I also have
anaconda and winpython, and another 3 pythons installed without
packaging/distribution.
Josef
>
> Thanks for sharing, cheers
>
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