On 03/15/2012 06:30 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 3/14/12 10:42 AM, Sergey Dobrov wrote: >> On 03/14/2012 09:28 PM, Joe Hildebrand wrote: >>> >>> It could be used by non-PEP pubsub, by, for example, sending an ago stanza >>> in your subscribe, or by translating it into a subscription option. >> >> Yeah, I just mean that it'd be cool to describe such way because it will >> probably use iq and not presence. > > Well, some non-PEP pubsub services do support presence-based > notifications, right?
Actually, I don't know. I don't think that this is a good idea to subscribe each pubsub-service I ever subscribed to. > >>> XEP-292. Both my vCard that you have subscribed to as well as my list of >>> contacts. I don't want the client to have to receive all of these vCards >>> every time they log in, including the base64 avatars. >>> >> >> It seems to me that the XEP-292 needs from/to subscription states to be >> processed correctly too. Because it will be strange for user that he can >> maintain one-way subscription but he can only get vcard updates for >> "both" subscribers... Maybe I am wrong, but I am persistently see an >> inconsistency here. The XMPP Core protocols provide us the one way >> subscriptions but it seems that them will be completely unuseful in the >> near future because modern protocols forget about them. I see the >> clients complication issues here too. > > I agree that bidi subscriptions are much preferable! But why? Don't you think that one-way subscriptions are very useful for people that have many subscribers? It may be ambiguous to receive notifications and presences from all of them. One-way subscriptions are very useful here, I think. But if the one-way subscriptions will be dismissed then XMPP can't compete with proprietary analogues. That's sad. You may say that I am an idealist but it's really interesting for me to build such applications (like notorious microblogging) and it depresses me when I can't solve such fundamental things neither to find any approval that the problem is actual. Really, I fighting for XSF standards to be observed and implemented but I can't guarantee that them are useful in real life. (The real story how I tried to make juick.com to be really XMPP-compatible) > >> But it's hard for me to examine the example of the XEP-292 since I don't >> fully understand the necessity of instant vcard updates notifications? >> Is this for the avatar updates? If so, from/to subscriptions need to be >> in game. > > It's not instant that matters necessarily, but it seems better than > polling for an updated vCard every time you log in. > >> At least, if I imaging me a user which doesn't know anything about XMPP >> under-the-hood, I think that it will be pretty non trivial for me why I >> have instant vcard updates for some accounts and don't have for another >> ones. > > Some of your contacts are cooler than others. :) > > But typically I don't think you would show the user an updated vCard > unless they asked for it or tried to view it. Using pubsub just improves > things underneath (because your client doesn't need to poll). Why? It may be really useful for avatar or Full name. > > Peter > -- With best regards, Sergey Dobrov, XMPP Developer and JRuDevels.org founder.
