On 19.09.2017 12:35, Remko Tronçon wrote:
> 
>     The original authors of the XEP worked on a follow up version [1] which
>     put the wire format into the XEP
> 
> 
> This follow-up version is in its current state even more underspecified
> than the libsignal one (for example, it's impossible to know how to
> authenticate the sent payload IIRC). 

If that's the case then lets improve it.

>     and was based (mostly) on the Signal
>     specification, which is a open standard [2].
> 
> 
> Signal's wire format is not an open standard AFAIK. For example, the
> first byte of a key is used to define the key format, which is only
> hinted in some of the specs.

Possibly, but that is exactly why people wanted to put the wire format
into the XEP while reusing the basic ratchet mechanism that is already
widely used by existing OMEMO implementations.

>     could reimplement everything from scratch (if they want)
> 
> 
> <insert previous argument about XEdDSA why they can't (sensibly)>

I don't remember arguments that XEdDSA could not be reimplemented. Any
well specified open standard can be implemented. If you don't feel
comfortable implementing it yourself, and are not able to use an
existing library, then I'm sure you would find a skilled programmer that
you can pay to implement it.

The arguments I've heard against XEdDSA where something like 1. "It's
not widespread" and 2. "There is no permissive license library". Both
are IMHO not worth the trade-off to switch to something else, because 1.
it is widely used, and 2. if you aren't happy with the existing library
ecosystem, then you are free to create an new one (you probably have to
put some money on the table). But OMEMO, using XEdDSA, is obviously no
problem for open source projects, otherwise we wouldn't have nearly half
a dozen implementations finished and many more to come [1].

- Florian

1: https://omemo.top/


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