In America, 90% of the 99% are WELL nourished, have TV, go sometimes
to a movie, and so on. In our extreme plenty, there is no comparison
with the billions of people who are TRULY poor.
To Phil, thank you for describing the people that we want to help and
need to help.
I think that Dean's comments were right on target.
Paul
--
Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected]
www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf (Best ref.)
Quoting Fireside Hearth <[email protected]>:
Maybe some of us can "collaborate" once we are no longer worried
about feeding our children.............we the 99% are happy to share
our expertise, but we also need to eat...sorry!
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:44:54 +0700
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means?
Phil,
It is possible to build cook stoves with doing damage to children
and the environment.
I work with an organization in Vietnam dedicated to cleaner
production techniques.
Your concerns here are not a problem.
But I would want to collaborate with experts who do not need to make
money through the sale of cook stoves.
Thanks.
Paul
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Fireside Hearth
<[email protected]> wrote:
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:06:42 +0700
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means?
I suggest:
that we collaborate in coming up with some of the best designs of
cook stoves for particular forms of biomass;that we look for
countries uniquely positioned to fabricate at the most competitive
prices; While not tolerating child slave labor or environmental rape
that we use the highest quality materials in our fabrication;that we
employ some of the most advanced mass production techniques; Only if
there are green in all ways
that we buy in large quantities to further reduce price;
that we sell at cost, or perhaps below cost, to the poor;that we
operate with total transparency in making known our fabrication costs;
that we ask the rich to voluntarily pay more to subsidize the sale
to the poor.
The effort to provide good cook stoves does not have to be a
money-making endeavor. Sorry, but I don't believe that there is not
a way to do both. My families future depends
on making money through this. We also wish to support our failing
schools with this money.
It could easily become a world-wide collaborative effort involving
many people on this stove list. YES!
Thanks.
Paul Olivier
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Dean Still <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Phil,
I think that if we factor in the ill health and climate change
caused by incomplete combustion of biomass, society as a whole saves
money by subsidizing the 50% fuel reduction and 90% emission
reduction cooking stove. However, as Bryan Wilson points out in his
presentations, the bottom of the pyramid consumer is not motivated
to pay for these improvements.
My hope is that someone will be smart enough and stubborn enough to
manufacture a market driven stove that meets the 50% and 90% level
of performance. And, the necessary push to accomplish this difficult
task would be very much assisted by a firm order for 1 million
stoves from some motivated funder who also locates and secures the
distribution network.
Making the 50% and 90% stove is the relatively easy part. I would
guess that the commercial distribution side is 10 times harder. I
can imagine distributing 100 million stoves by selling at the market
price to cooks who then use the stoves and the funder makes the
money back on the carbon credits.
I hear that Envirofit is doing something along these lines?
All Best,
Dean
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Phil Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
The $2/day number can clearly mean very different things in
different places. I live in rural Nicaragua and can offer some data
that at least fits here. And here is a place where fuel-efficient
stoves really are needed.
For those with work, $2/day is the going wage. There are lots of
people who seldom work so $2/day/family in this area as far as cash
income is pretty high. That said, most people have enough land to
grow much of what they eat and few have any debts.
The cash gets spent on batteries for radios, cooking oil, salt,
sugar, rice and minimally on clothing. That's really about it. But,
having no savings and living day-to-day on what they have is
typical. That is, if they had a good week they might buy batteries
for the radio but, if not, just not listen to it.
Health care and education are free so they are non-issues (for
pretty low quality for each). That pretty well defines rural life
here.
Telling someone they can reduce fuel consumption by 50%, get rid of
smoke in the house and such is not going to compute if an investment
is needed. They will walk farther to cut wood for cooking and
pretend the smoke is a non-issue. Thus, these people are unlikely to
get excited about "something better" if an investment is needed.
What will work is if they can go to a workshop showing them how to
make a stove using mud and something that is available as scrap or
given to them. Beyond that, good luck.
--
Phil Hughes
[email protected]
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--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
27C Pham Hong Thai Street
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
27C Pham Hong Thai Street
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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