I am looking for people who do not have to worry about feeding their children. Paul
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Fireside Hearth < [email protected]> wrote: > Maybe some of us can "collaborate" once we are no longer worried about > feeding our children.............we the 99% are happy to share our > expertise, but we also need to eat...sorry! > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:44:54 +0700 > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means? > > Phil, > > It is possible to build cook stoves with doing damage to children and the > environment. > I work with an organization in Vietnam dedicated to cleaner production > techniques. > Your concerns here are not a problem. > But I would want to collaborate with experts who do not need to make money > through the sale of cook stoves. > > Thanks. > Paul > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Fireside Hearth < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:06:42 +0700 > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means? > > I suggest: > > 1. that we collaborate in coming up with some of the best designs of > cook stoves for particular forms of biomass; > 2. that we look for countries uniquely positioned to fabricate at the > most competitive prices; While not tolerating child slave labor or > environmental rape > 3. that we use the highest quality materials in our fabrication; > 4. that we employ some of the most advanced mass production > techniques;Only if there are green in all ways > 5. that we buy in large quantities to further reduce price; > 6. that we sell at cost, or perhaps below cost, to the poor; > 7. that we operate with total transparency in making known our > fabrication costs; > 8. that we ask the rich to voluntarily pay more to subsidize the sale > to the poor. > > The effort to provide good cook stoves does not have to be a money-making > endeavor. Sorry, but I don't believe that there is not a way to do both. > My families future depends > on making money through this. We also wish to support our failing schools > with this money. > It could easily become a world-wide collaborative effort involving many > people on this stove list. YES! > > > Thanks. > Paul Olivier > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Dean Still <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Phil, > > I think that if we factor in the ill health and climate change caused by > incomplete combustion of biomass, society as a whole saves money by > subsidizing the 50% fuel reduction and 90% emission reduction cooking > stove. However, as Bryan Wilson points out in his presentations, the bottom > of the pyramid consumer is not motivated to pay for these improvements. > > My hope is that someone will be smart enough and stubborn enough to > manufacture a market driven stove that meets the 50% and 90% level of > performance. And, the necessary push to accomplish this difficult task > would be very much assisted by a firm order for 1 million stoves from some > motivated funder who also locates and secures the distribution network. > > Making the 50% and 90% stove is the relatively easy part. I would guess > that the commercial distribution side is 10 times harder. I can imagine > distributing 100 million stoves by selling at the market price to cooks who > then use the stoves and the funder makes the money back on the carbon > credits. > > I hear that Envirofit is doing something along these lines? > > All Best, > > Dean > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Phil Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: > > The $2/day number can clearly mean very different things in different > places. I live in rural Nicaragua and can offer some data that at least > fits here. And here is a place where fuel-efficient stoves really are > needed. > > For those with work, $2/day is the going wage. There are lots of people > who seldom work so $2/day/family in this area as far as cash income is > pretty high. That said, most people have enough land to grow much of what > they eat and few have any debts. > > The cash gets spent on batteries for radios, cooking oil, salt, sugar, > rice and minimally on clothing. That's really about it. But, having no > savings and living day-to-day on what they have is typical. That is, if > they had a good week they might buy batteries for the radio but, if not, > just not listen to it. > > Health care and education are free so they are non-issues (for pretty low > quality for each). That pretty well defines rural life here. > > Telling someone they can reduce fuel consumption by 50%, get rid of smoke > in the house and such is not going to compute if an investment is needed. > They will walk farther to cut wood for cooking and pretend the smoke is a > non-issue. Thus, these people are unlikely to get excited about "something > better" if an investment is needed. > > What will work is if they can go to a workshop showing them how to make a > stove using mud and something that is available as scrap or given to them. > Beyond that, good luck. > > -- > Phil Hughes > [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List > Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List > Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 27C Pham Hong Thai Street Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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