Dear Stovers, being a biologist, I am totally ignorant of the physics involved in this discussion. 2 thoughts however came to my mind. Would the efficiency of a TLUD or Rocket improve by fixing a wire gauze dome over the flame? Can a flat piece of wire gauze work or does it have to be a dome? Yours A.D.Karve
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:46 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > [Default] On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 08:36:41 -0300,"Kevin" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >One way to look at it is that "Blue Flames are too smart by half." :-) > There > >is a gain in completeness of combustion, and probably higher temperature > for > >"products of combustion", and reduced sooting of pots, BUT there is a > >significant loss in luminosity, and heat transfer to the pot by radiation. > >The Mesh Dome, heated by direct convection of the "blue flame" then is in > a > >position to add a "radiation contribution" to heat transfer capability. > > Yes > > > >It would be a very interesting experiment to take a "flame temperature" of > >Paul Oliver's system, with, and without the dome. My guess is that the > >"flame temperature" of the "Blue Flame", and the gases leaving the dome > >would be similar, and relatively low, even though the actual thermocouple > >measured temperature of the gases would be high. In very simplistic terms > >(for illustrative purposes only) > >1: Blue Flame temperature by radiation measurement: 1000 > >2: Gas temperature above dome (radiation) 1000 > >3: Thermometer temperature of both gases 1500 > >4: Flame Emissivity of 1: and 2: .2 > >5: Flame emissivity for luminous flame: .8 > > it looks like Paul has done thios now > > > >Thus, if some of the pyrolysis gases were diverted away from the "blue > flame > >conditions", and were allowed to increase the flame luminosity, there > could > >potentially be an opportunity to "have your cake and eat it." More > >specifically, the addition of some "luminous fractions" to the flame > could, > >for example increase flame luminosity to say .6. but with a drop in actual > >gas temperature to say 1300 because of incompleteness of combustion. > > The trouble is that could increase PICs leaving the flame unburnt. > > >So.... if the concepts are correct, then it would seem that the best way > to > >make a stove would be to make one with a burner that produced BOTH yellow > >flame(for luminosity) and a blue flame (for completeness of combustion). > > Having got a good, short, premixed flame I wouldn't advocate going > back to a diffusion flame. > > There is an example from the past where a chamical was added to town > gas to make a yeallow flame, I think it was called carburetted gas, > and a sall amount of petrol vapour was added to the CO+H2 mixture but > this was before gas manteles were available. I think gas mantles t=do > a better job as the light radiator because of the excitation > characteristics of thorium being better than glowing sooty particles. > > AJH > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > -- *** Dr. A.D. Karve Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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