Tom et al

   Any cite for the 5-7% value?

   Your last sentence is confusing to me with the word "gasifying pyrolysis 
gases" in it.  Paul is striving for only pyrolysis, and don't think he is 
proposing a packed charcoal bed.

Ron



On Apr 28, 2013, at 2:19 PM, "Tom Miles" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Paul,
> 
>  
> 
> It’s a great idea to use char as a filler but there is a cost.  I am sure 
> that you will find that a small percentage of the charcoal “filler” will be 
> consumed as charcoal will burn in direct contact with air or through 
> reduction of the char. You will always have a little excess air or moisture 
> in the bed.  When charcoal is used as a packed bed for gasifying pyrolysis 
> gases charcoal consumption is estimated at 5-7%.  
> 
>  
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 1:08 PM
> To: [email protected]; Paul Anderson
> Cc: [email protected]; Eckhardt, Bradley D; Discussion of biomass 
> cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] TLUD advances -- Two more uses of char
> 
>  
> 
> Paul et al
> 
>  
> 
>   This is to recognize and applaud the "char filler" suggestion you received 
> from NASA's Dr. Jack Bacon.  I like it and hope we can hear soon from some 
> who may have tried it.  My guess is that there is some maximum char volume 
> above which Andrew's observation today of char combustion will prevail.  
> 
>  
> 
>    You correctly talked of the pyrolysis front.  Equally, users should be 
> thinking about char combustion if any char particle gets hot enough while the 
> upward flowing primary air still contains O2.     Upflowing primary air can 
> get to char easier than fuel since there will be no/little exiting gases from 
> the char.
> 
>  
> 
>   Good note.
> 
>  
> 
> Ron
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On Apr 28, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Paul Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> These two and many other "tips" need to be collected and told to TLUD 
> stove users. One avenue is in Christa's Manual, Another is in stove 
> manuals and at training sessions. And at websites, etc.
> 
> 1. Charcoal to extinguish hot charcoal: When dealing with small 
> amounts of hot charcoal as in the residential TLUD stoves, one easy way 
> to extinguish hot charcoal is to dump it into a somewhat larger amount 
> of already extinguished (cold) char. The cold char takes up much of 
> the heat, extinguishing the hot char. Be sure that it is well mixed 
> and sufficiently cooled to avoid re-ignition. This is best done in 
> containers that can be sealed. Containers of metal or ceramic are 
> best, but even wood could be used if the quantity of cold char is 
> sufficient to prevent the hot char from reaching the sides. As always, 
> be careful because oxygen to a small hot ember can lead to much greater 
> combustion.
> 
> 2. "Space fillers" in loose fuels in TLUD devices:
> 
> General note about fuel in TLUDs:
> In general, dry biomass fuels in TLUDs need to appropriately fill most 
> of the air-space in the fuel chamber. This is accomplished with 
> smallish pieces such as wood chips, pellets, short-cut twigs, and shells 
> of seeds. Also, careful packing with vertical wood-segments or 
> straight-ish reeds can occupy the space. But twisted sticks and 
> long-ish pieces that bridge inside the fuel chamber leave too much space 
> unoccupied. In those cases, the space can be appropriately occupied by 
> adding small pieces, as named above. Shake the TLUD to assure that the 
> pieces have settled in well, and add more as needed. These fillers 
> will also pyrolyze and become charcoal.
> 
> Inert materials as "space fillers": Technically, the space fillers 
> could be inert materials such as ball bearings or pebbles (of rock that 
> will not shatter with this heat) or fired clay balls. Although they 
> could function effectively, they would require separation after the 
> batch is unloaded and cooled. But there is one material that solves 
> these inconveniences and costs. It is charcoal.
> 
> Charcoal as a space filler: TLUD stoves make charcoal. Therefore, 
> charcoal is not a fuel for TLUD stoves. However, small pieces of 
> charcoal (but not charcoal fines) can also be used as "space fillers" to 
> solve the need to restrict air flow in the fuel chamber. The char will 
> not pyrolyze and will not burn (char-gasify or oxidize) as the pyrolysis 
> front moves downward through that biomass fuel.
> 
> a. Char is abundant for TLUD users, and at no additional cost, and is 
> not consumed.
> 
> b. Unlike small pieces of biomass as fillers, char pieces cannot catch 
> on fire and then fall down to the lower areas of the fuel chamber and 
> igniting fire there.
> 
> Charcoal as a reducer of thermal output: Clearly in the above 
> statements when charcoal is used as a space filler, the fuel chamber 
> contains less biomass and therefore less heat will be generated (which 
> is desirable for simmering and some other cooking needs).
> 
> Another variation is to have well packed (mainly straight) wood or reeds 
> or stems as a vertical bundle in the middle of a TLUD fuel chamber. 
> Then load in small charcoal all around the bundle to fill in the 
> remaining space. When used (pyrolyzed), the fuel will yield heat in 
> proportion to its cross-sectional area of the fuel bundle, not of the 
> entire cross-sectional area of the fuel cylinder. This is because the 
> annulus of char is essentially non-combustible at the pyrolytic 
> temperatures in the TLUD reactor.
> 
> Variations of all of the above need to be tested and even measured. 
> (This will be utilized at the Stove Camp at Aprovecho 22 - 26 July 2013).
> 
> Note: Credit for much of the above goes to Dr. Jack Bacon, a senior 
> scientist at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX. Jack, a 
> leader in the local chapter of Engineers Without Borders (EWB-JSC), 
> suggested charcoal as fillers during discussions in April 2013 with Paul 
> Anderson about an EWB project to use TLUDs for heat in a fruit dryer in 
> Rwanda.
> 
> Dr TLUD
> 
> -- 
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
> 
> 
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