Dear Christa Thank you for your excellent references. They contain a lot of very good information. They show the very broad influence stoves can have on the lives of people using stoves, and the importance of the selected stoves being able to provide what is wanted of them.
"Stove Testing" seems to have gotten off on the wrong foot many years ago, with "Efficiency" being based on the Water Boiling Test "WBT". The fact that it was a flawed concept is evidenced by the numerous changes that have been made to it over the years. The unreliability of past tests is perhaps evidenced by the fact that there seems to be a reluctance to bring forward their data in a transparent manner. Given that the existing "Stove Testing Protocol" is open to improvement, as is evidenced by the fact that they seem to be under review, this is a good time "do things right." The five fundamental attributes of a "stove" are: * Function * Fuel Type * Fuel Efficiency * Health * Safety There are several "stove functions", such as cooking, heating, and making char. There are applications where a stove performing a combination of these basic functions would be advantageous. While your major interest, and that of the stoves List seems to be "Cooking Stoves", others may be interested in different stove functions, or combinations of functions. Different Categories and sub categories can be set up, so that performance of various stove systems within a given sub-category could be made in a meaningful manner. One thing I think would be very helpful would be to test the stoves over a range of power levels. With an electric stove, one can simply "dial up" the desired power level, for boiling, simmering, or slow cooking.. A biomass stove is capable of "power output control also, but its efficiency and emissions are also likely to change at reduced power levels. Having truly meaningful performance data for the stoves would enable Aid Organizations and other customers or Promoters to select stoves for how they would best fit into "their big picture." Best wishes, Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: CHRISTA ROTH To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition Kevin, the link should work fine if you copy the whole line, not only the blue part. otherwise it is all on the GIZ HERA cooking energy compendium, (I hope this link appears all in blue when I send it, otherwise cope the entire line into your browser) https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium and thus it deals with stoves for COOKING, though not only for biomass fuels. It is intended to compile experiences from the field work of GIZ and others to assist people that are not constantly out there in the field to learn about realities of stove users. I agree with Tom, that this list was intended for the discussion of biomass COOKstoves, so that people are able to cook food in order to survive, which is quite a vital need. And that is also what my day-to-day job deals with. I don't have time for academic discussions. most of the points you raise are mentioned in the first chapter of the compendium, please take a moment to read about 'Global stove diversity' in the chapter https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium#Cooking_Energy_Technologies_and_Practices regards Christa Am 01.05.2013 um 07:57 schrieb "Kevin" <[email protected]>: Dear Christa ----- Original Message ----- From: CHRISTA ROTH To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition Kevin, find a definition attempt on https://energypedia.info/wiki/Improved_Cookstoves_–_What_is_it_all_about%3F it is a bit more specific than merriam-webster. # Unfortunately, when I went there, the page is "under construction.' Would you agree with the following: What is a stove? The term ‘stove’ refers to a device that generates heat from an energy carrier and makes that heat available for the intended use in a specific application. # I think this is a good "broad definition" for a stove. However, it would, for example, also apply to a device that is more typically called a "boiler." In line with the Stoves Site, I was hoping to get a definition that was more restricted to Domestic or Residential cooking and space heating. Cook stoves are made to transfer the generated heat to food, with the purpose to get it cooked and edible for human consumption. Thus ‘a stove’ features the combination of heat generation and heat transfer to a cooking pot if the food is cooked in a liquid, or a griddle, plancha etc. if the food is baked on a hot surface or roasted without liquid. # Efficiency of heat transfer is indeed very important A stove can be designed to accomodate a pot on the surface, a pot submerged within the stove, a 'two pot system", open flame grilling, a grill or griddle where food is baked or fried directly on teh stove top, where no pot is involved, etc. While a stove can be designed for maximum heat transfer to teh pot, there are many "legitimate stove designs" where the manufacturer has no control over heat transfer to the food or pot. I would suggest that "stoves are made to provide an opportunity for heat transfer to food, but it is up to the user in many cases to employ a suitable pot, wind screen, convection shield, to maximize heat transfer to the pot or food." Indeed teh Customer may want a stove with lower heat transfer heat efficiency for convenience, and may specifically want a "flat top stove", rather than a "submerged pot stove", simply because of a concern for the outside of teh pot becoming sooty. However, the Stove Designer may decide to offer a stove broviding direct heating of the pot, to serve markets wanting such a stove. Expressed differently, he may offer some designs that attempt to maximize fuel utilization efficiency to sell into rthat market, and other designs, of lesser heat transfer efficiency, to provide the Customer with other wanted features. # Note also that stoves intended for Tropic Regions may not want any shell loss from the stove, while in temperate or cool regions, heat loss from the cooking stove can be a decided advantage. I feel we should also include a "space heating function" in the general definition of a stove. Clearly "heat loss from a stove shell" in areas where the warmth is wanted should be included as an "efficiency bonus" to the stove, but if teh same stove was used in teh tropics, where the "heat loss was not welcomed', then it should be treated as a "Fuel efficiency loss." Best wishes, Kevin Am 30.04.2013 um 18:50 schrieb Kevin <[email protected]>: Dear List Just what is a "stove?" I would suggest that it is important that we all know what a "stove" is, when we attempt to determine the difference between a "good stove" and a "poor stove.' When we ask Mr. Google, we get more than 7 million hits. However, the most common definitions seem to be typified by the one at http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove " 1a : a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating) " At http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ , the stated purpose of the site is: "Our site is dedicated to helping people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions. " What about accepting the Merriam-Webster definition for a "stove?" Would anyone have a better definition for a "stove?" Best wishes, Kevin _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
