Paul O,I second your statements fully, still comming from an oil and gas producing country.........:) We are "fortunate" to have access to those natural resources (fossil fuels), hydro and wind, but that does not mean we have to close our eyes and just leave it to "others" to solve their "own" problems or challanges........ "The "simplest" solution is most likely the best and most sustainable solution" "Short distance food and fuel", should be the goal and moto for all and everyone on this planet. Have a nice sunday! Otto Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 14:20:04 +0700 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Stoves] The price of bottled gas
Christina, How available is natural gas in Guatemala? Is it not made available to the people by oil and gas companies? No doubt it takes an incredible infrastructure to make it available to them in bottled form. I would imagine that Guatemala generates fairly important quantities of agricultural residues. Perhaps what you are really saying is that the infrastructure needed to make predictable biomass fuel available to the people of Guatemala is not yet in place. It is precisely such an infrastructure we should be working on. Whenever and wherever possible, in rich or poor countries alike, we should look for every opportunity to replace bottled gas with syngas. Why burn non-renewable fossil fuels, especially when agricultural residues could be transformed into predictable fuels that are thoroughly renewable? Are we not concerned about global warming each time that we switch on a modern gas stove? Thanks. Paul Olivier On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Christina Espinosa <[email protected]> wrote: In Guatemala, the current price to refill a 25 lb tank is $14 (no subsidy). A 10lb tank refill would cost $5.60. 5lb tanks are not permited in the market. Every country is going to have a different market, regulations, etc....and not every country has an abundance of readily available biomass. Not every customer might want to produce char or have access to biomass. LPG is still an alternative for many families who only purchase wood. Christina Espinosa On Saturday, May 4, 2013, mtrevor wrote: Just curious. What size bottle costs USD $21.00 Here in the Marshall Islands the standard US 20 lbs bottle is $37.50 and the small pressure cans in the stores run from $0.96 up to $2.00 plus. Michael N Ttvor ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Olivier To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [Stoves] The price of bottled gas Philip, Here in Vietnam bottled gas costs more than $21.00 US per bottle. There is no distribution problem here at all. Some households use up a bottle in less than one month. When the monthly wage is not more than $120 US per month, the situation is extremely dire. In many parts of Vietnam, rice hulls and coffee husks are often dumped in rivers and valleys. Sometimes they are uselessly burned as a means of disposal. With the right type of stove, these agricultural residues put out a beautiful blue flame that rivals that of bottled gas. When we derive energy from fossil fuels, there is nothing of value left behind. But when we gasify or pyrolyze biomass, a valuable biochar remains. When incorporated into the soil, biochar promotes plant growth and sequesters carbon. Why derive energy from fossil fuels when we can get it from renewable biomass? Are you not, in any way, concerned about global warming? Thanks. Paul On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Philip Lloyd <[email protected]> wrote: Paul Oliver commented " The price of bottled gas is a huge problem throughout most of the developing world." Part of the problem is poor models of distribution. Locally, we are seeing the entry of a supplier who a) has found a way of filling 5kg bottles rapidly at a central plant and b) distributing them directly to the retailer at minimal cost, with a growing chain of retailers chosen so that the householder can resupply within 500m. The net result is a halving of the street price of bottle gas, and it is now the cheapest way to cook. The advantage of filling at a central plant is that safety is greatly enhanced; and the discovery of a way of filling small cylinders rapidly means high throughput and low costs. Most big bottlers of gas don't like the really small cylinders because they couldn't fill them rapidly enough to get throughput - it was cheaper (and far less safe) to refill them at the retailers. Regards to all _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6294 - Release Date: 05/03/13 -- Christina Espinosa University of the Pacific '10 School of International Studies [email protected] _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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