Tom, Can you send more information on these "meat-grinder" pellet machines? But I am a bit worried that such pellet machines will not achieve complete binding.
Here in Vietnam there are a lot of pellet machines in operation, especially on rice hulls. Nothing has to be invented. It's simply a question of getting pellet machines out there. For example, in Lam Dong province where I live no one is making pellets. This I hope to correct real soon. Paul On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Tom Miles <[email protected]> wrote: > The world is full of failed densification systems. You don’t have to go > all the way to a high density (35 lb/ft3) fuel pellet. Put the crumbled > cake through a meat grinder with a large sieve and dry out the pellets. > Make’s a great fuel. $1,000 from Cabela’s. It’s a mini version of Richard’s > press. There are Chinese versions of course. **** > > ** ** > > Tom**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *mtrevor > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:25 AM > > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets**** > > ** ** > > I absolutely agree with you right down the line, however I am generally > the odd man out.**** > > **** > > The only pelleting machine they had here was in the copra mill for the > cake. **** > > It was phased out years ago Now they just move bulk crumble. Even though > you do not approve**** > > the crumbled cake burned nicely in my XL woodgas stove. **** > > **** > > There is no coir dust as the is no industrial processing of husks. Beside > the husks are spread ove an area **** > > maybe 1/3 of the entire United States**** > > **** > > there is a very small scale briquetting operation based on one of Richard > Stanley's **** > > lever press and scrap paper at the local waste company. Effective > processing of biomass waste would be important **** > > but its limited diffuse distributed nature makes this nearly impossible. * > *** > > **** > > There are some real challenges involved here.**** > > **** > > Michael N Trevor. **** > > **** > > . **** > > ----- Original Message ----- **** > > *From:* Paul Olivier <[email protected]> **** > > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> > **** > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:29 PM**** > > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets**** > > ** ** > > Michael,**** > > Can you access pellets in the Marshal Islands?**** > > Do you have coconut dust in the Marshal Islands?**** > > Coconut dust is in an ideal powder form for pelletizing,**** > > and it contains a lot of lignin that should serve as a natural binder.*** > * > > I would urge funding agencies to get involved in the finance of pellet > machines throughout the world.**** > > ** ** > > Funding agencies should also be investing heavily in biochar research.**** > > When farmers understand the value of biochar, it will acquire value. > Its sale will cover the cost of making pellets.**** > > ** ** > > Once again, fuel preparation is critical. > Imagine where the coal industry would be without coal preparation.**** > > There are a lot of bad fuels out there, such as coconut dust, that need to > be prepared.**** > > ** ** > > Paul**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 2:44 PM, mtrevor <[email protected]> wrote:**** > > Dear Paul **** > > If you start making this unit please advise.**** > > Thank you**** > > **** > > Michael N Trevor**** > > Majuro **** > > Marshall islands **** > > .**** > > n**** > > ----- Original Message ----- **** > > *From:* Paul Olivier <[email protected]> **** > > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> > **** > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:54 PM**** > > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets**** > > ** ** > > In my previous email I concluded by saying: > *What's needed above all else, in my opinion, are small, beautiful TLUD's > that make use of pellets. Such units could be situated in modern kitchens > throughout the world. Once these units are in place, the rest will follow. > ***** > > > It seems that Home Depot, Wal-mart, Lowes, Ace, Agway and many others > large retailers in the USA all carry wood pellets. Why can we not make > TLUDs that make use of these pellets as fuel? The only thing that changes > is the height of the reactor: it's much less than the height of a reactor > that uses undensified biomass. This means that the TLUD is small, > lightweight, mobile and much cheaper. > > Here is an example of what I am talking about: > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Short/DrawingsUltra/001.pdf > The total height of the reactor is less than 10 inches.**** > > This reactor holds about 2 kgs of pellets.**** > > This gives a burn time of about one and a half hours.**** > > The reactor itself in 304 stainless steel weighs less than 1.5 kgs.**** > > ** ** > > We've already tested taller TLUDs on rice hull pellets,**** > > and they emit the same beautiful blue flame as when loose rice hulls are > used.**** > > Another big advantage of pellets is that there is much less particulate > matter emissions compared to loose rice hulls.**** > > Loose rice hulls are dusty, messy, bulky and a real nuisance to store and > load.**** > > In an urban setting it makes no sense to be hauling in loose rice hulls of > a bulk density of only 80 kg/m3.**** > > If we're going to compete with fossil fuel gas, we've must reach a certain > level of convenience and ease of use.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks.**** > > Paul**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:11 AM, Paul Olivier <[email protected]> > wrote:**** > > See comments below.**** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott < > [email protected]> wrote:**** > > Dear Paul O > > The reason is economics.**** > > ** ** > > In may cases transport distances are short, and the economics are quite > good, and yet we complacently continue to burn fossil fuels. I lived for > over 20 years in West Flanders in Belgium where wheat fields encroached > upon densely populated rural areas, and yet everyone merrily burned LPG gas > to cook a meal. Later I move to Waxahachie, Texas, a small town near > Dallas, and once again, wheat fields were everywhere. Yet no one dreamed of > making wheat husk or wheat straw pellets and using them to make syngas to > cook a meal.**** > > **** > > > China is showing at the moment that the maximum radius that is viable to > transport pellets/briquettes is 150 km.**** > > ** ** > > China appears to be struggling with a lack of infrastructure in getting > pellets to market. How does one explain the economics of shipping coffee > husk pellets from Brazil to Holland as we see in this link? > http://www.coffeehabitat.com/2007/10/coffee-husks-as/ This is a > thoroughly bold undertaking, but does it make sense to transport coffee > husk pellets half way around the world to provide fuel for Dutch power > stations? Why not make use of these pellets in Brazil? Also, one might > argue that the highest and best use of coffee husk pellets would be, not to > burn them in huge power stations, but to generate from them a syngas that > would replace bottled gas or other forms of fossil fuel gas. The biochar > left over from these stoves would then be returned to the soil.**** > > **** > > > $76 a ton is cheap by Canadian standards but far higher than the price of > coal per delivered MJ.**** > > ** ** > > Not always so. Vietnamese coal coming from the north costs more per > delivered MJ than rice hulls pellets. **** > > In Vietnam there is a huge multi-billion dollar infrastructure that > underlies the mining, preparation and transportation of coal.**** > > This infrastructure does not yet exist for waste biomass pellets.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > Agri-waste pellets are a nice fuel provided they have been prepared > properly.**** > > ** ** > > The same applies to coal and all other fossil fuels.**** > > Coal preparation is a gigantic and complex undertaking.**** > > > **** > > > If the value of char is 'always there' it is quite possible the economic > equation will change with the introduction of gasifiers, however the same > energy production rate will increase the demand for transport and raw husk > supply.**** > > ** ** > > Yes, you are right. The introduction of pellet gasifiers in a given area > will create a demand for pellets, and the demand for pellets will stimulate > the construction of the infrastructure needed to meet this demand.**** > > > You know all this. How about giving us an equation or spreadsheet that > includes the whole value chain?**** > > **** > > > Stovers could plug in their local costs and make a comparison between > options. In at least *some *circumstances the gasification route would be > the most viable.**** > > ** ** > > Instead of using the word "some". I would prefer to say "many".**** > > **** > > > The UK buys wood pellets from Canada to burn in power stations, but that > is subsidized by pensions grannies and the working poor.**** > > ** ** > > Once again, why haul pellets from Canada to the UK? Does the UK not have > an abundance of agricultural waste? And once again, should we not focus > more on producing syngas from pellets and directly using this syngas to > cook a meal? Burning pellets to make electricity is surely not the wisest > way to proceed, especially if this electricity is used as a source of > energy to cook a meal. Why not bypass the power station altogether?**** > > What's needed above all else, in my opinion, are small, beautiful TLUD's > that make use of pellets. Such units could be situated in modern kitchens > throughout the world. Once these units are in place, the rest will follow. > **** > > **** > > > Regards > Crispin > >From BB9900**** > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Olivier <[email protected]> > Sender: "Stoves" <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:19:20**** > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets**** > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/**** > > > > **** > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ **** > > > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ **** > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/**** > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com**** > > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6400 - Release Date: 06/10/13 > **** > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > **** > > > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ **** > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/**** > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6400 - Release Date: 06/10/13* > *** > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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