What do you think the maximum service temperature of SS 304 is in a
stove environment?
Alex
On 30/06/2013 9:22 PM, M. Nurhuda wrote:
Paul and all,
I agree with you. The char combustion is very dangerous to the plat
material of burning chamber. My experiences, the combustion chamber will
be damaged within 2-3 months if it is long exposed in a strong char
combustion mode, even the plat material is SS 304.
Moreover, to be wise is a better way to conserve nature. The soil has
right to get biochar in term of combustion residue to maintain the soil
fertility. This, not only good for soil, but also for CO2 reduction.
Regards
M. Nurhuda
Varun,
You say that with the Oorja, 70% of the total energy is delivered in
flaming mode and 30% in char mode. But would this not apply to all TLUDs?
In my case, if I leave the fan on after the flaming mode is finished, a
char mode begins. As the char is combusted, the temperature within the
unit
climbs incredibly (dangerously) high.
This leads me to ask: why consume the char? Why not stop the process when
the flaming mode comes to an end? There is an inefficiency that kicks in
when char is consumed, since this takes place at a considerable distance
from the pot.
Thanks.
Paul Olivier
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Varun ShivaKumar
<[email protected]>wrote:
Dear Paul,
Oorja is exactly TLUD. 70% of the total energy is delivered in flaming
mode which involves migratory pyrolysis front (or flame front as
discussed
in chapter 5). Only 30% energy in the left over char is delivered in the
char mode in the manner described by you. You are correct in saying that
it
is not TLUD in this char mode (in fact it is co-current in char mode as
opposed to counter-current in flaming mode) . But in flaming mode it is
exactly TLUD. I kindly request you to take this into account when you
discuss this at Aprovecho.
Varun
------------------------------
*From:* Stoves [[email protected]] on behalf of
[email protected] [[email protected]]
*Sent:* Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:17 AM
*To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Paal Wendelbo
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
Paal and list.
The thesis was inspired by the Oorja, and helped to improve it,
but
the thesis itself is much more general. The word "Oorja" rarely
appears.
Does anyone know if there have been any Oorja test results reported
by
any of the major stove testing labs (Aprovecho, EPA, etc)?
Ron
------------------------------
*From: *"Paal Wendelbo" <[email protected]>
*To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
[email protected]>
*Sent: *Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:18:21 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
Ron and Paul O
Into the advertising leaflet of the Oorja stove is written “at end of
flame very little aches is left� and I have tested the stove and can
confirm it is right. I could see sparks up in the air above stove. The
grid
of cast iron 10 mm thick was white yellow about 900-1000ËšC and quite
dangerous to handle to take out some few char left.
With regards Paal W
*From:* [email protected]
*Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:51 PM
*To:* Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
Paul etal:
I should have added there are some good discussions of the same
stove/cylinder (glass) with numerous types of fuels. And he shows they
obey the same laws - can predict performance (front velocity, power
level
(?) - given the superficial velocty.)
Ron
------------------------------
*From: *[email protected]
*To: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]>
*Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
[email protected]>
*Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:44:07 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
Paul:
I know very little on the Oorja stove. But the thesis is mostly
(entirely?) on a packed bed, top lit. It is on the migratory pyrolytic
front (MPF) - so should be applicable to all TLUDs. I would like to
hear
from any/all on whether I am getting the right reading about NOT
consuming
the char.
Ron
------------------------------
*From: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]>
*To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
[email protected]>
*Cc: *[email protected]
*Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:12:57 PM
*Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
Ron,
I am in Uganda now and have not had a chance to see the thesis. Thank
you for the comments.
About #3, the Oorja stove is rather heavy for turning over, has a
smallish
fuel chamber meaning not much char and only short TLUD burns, and has a
loose cast iron cup in the bottom that would fall out if the unit is
tipped
over to remove the char. It is designed to NOT be tipped over for
saving
char.
It is intentionally designed to have continuous burning with the fire in
the bottom consuming char. And when doing that, the Oorja is NOT
operating in the TLUD mode which is specifically characterized by the
migratory pyrolytic front (MPF), but the Oorja is not with MPF after the
rather small initial load of fuel has been pyrolyzed.
Therefore, the Oorja (and most others with forced air FA) essentially is
NOT a TLUD because it is operated without the MPF except for the initial
batch of fuel.
I will be addressing this topic more at the Stove Camp at Aprovecho on
22
- 26 July.
Paul
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 6/27/2013 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Julien and list
1. Thanks very much for providing this cite. I have read most and
find
it to be a well done thesis. I wish we had more like it.
2. The concepts of char and TLUDs are in here thoroughly. But nothing
on
the idea of a stove designed to make char. All char is presumed and
desired to be consumed.
3. My conclusion (would like to hear more) is that a good case is made
(not intentionally) for NOT consuming the produced char in a TLUD (this
one fan-powered and widely sold in India as the "Oorja" (started by
BP)).
Very little gain in overall efficiency as the char is consumed.
4. A major advance was his study of the importance of ash in this
"char"
period as a poor radiator - thereby responsible for (undesired) high
char
temperatures.
5. Most everything shown as a function of superficial velocity (Vs) -
with 16-17 cm/sec shown as key dividing point in stove behavior.. Above
which velocity one swtches from char production to char consumption. I
have not seen this before.
For his highly automated fan system, measuring Vs was apparently not
so difficult. Anyone able to give a way to get an easy estimate of Vs,
when there is only natural draft?
6. Quite a bit on the importance of low emissions of CO.
7. Good information on both the experimental and computational side of
top-lit (packed bed) stoves. Not much here for rocket stoves.
Have I got #3 right?
Ron
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Dalat
Vietnam
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