See: http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1175 http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=103 Thanks. Paul Olivier
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott < [email protected]> wrote: > About 350 C > > Crispin > From BB9900 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex English <[email protected]> > Sender: "Stoves" <[email protected]> > Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:35:14 > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > > > What do you think the maximum service temperature of SS 304 is in a > stove environment? > > Alex > > On 30/06/2013 9:22 PM, M. Nurhuda wrote: > > Paul and all, > > > > I agree with you. The char combustion is very dangerous to the plat > > material of burning chamber. My experiences, the combustion chamber will > > be damaged within 2-3 months if it is long exposed in a strong char > > combustion mode, even the plat material is SS 304. > > > > Moreover, to be wise is a better way to conserve nature. The soil has > > right to get biochar in term of combustion residue to maintain the soil > > fertility. This, not only good for soil, but also for CO2 reduction. > > > > Regards > > M. Nurhuda > > > > > > > >> Varun, > >> > >> You say that with the Oorja, 70% of the total energy is delivered in > >> flaming mode and 30% in char mode. But would this not apply to all > TLUDs? > >> In my case, if I leave the fan on after the flaming mode is finished, a > >> char mode begins. As the char is combusted, the temperature within the > >> unit > >> climbs incredibly (dangerously) high. > >> > >> This leads me to ask: why consume the char? Why not stop the process > when > >> the flaming mode comes to an end? There is an inefficiency that kicks in > >> when char is consumed, since this takes place at a considerable distance > >> from the pot. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> Paul Olivier > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Varun ShivaKumar > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Paul, > >>> > >>> Oorja is exactly TLUD. 70% of the total energy is delivered in flaming > >>> mode which involves migratory pyrolysis front (or flame front as > >>> discussed > >>> in chapter 5). Only 30% energy in the left over char is delivered in > the > >>> char mode in the manner described by you. You are correct in saying > that > >>> it > >>> is not TLUD in this char mode (in fact it is co-current in char mode as > >>> opposed to counter-current in flaming mode) . But in flaming mode it is > >>> exactly TLUD. I kindly request you to take this into account when you > >>> discuss this at Aprovecho. > >>> > >>> Varun > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *From:* Stoves [[email protected]] on behalf of > >>> [email protected] [[email protected]] > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:17 AM > >>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Paal Wendelbo > >>> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > >>> > >>> Paal and list. > >>> > >>> The thesis was inspired by the Oorja, and helped to improve it, > >>> but > >>> the thesis itself is much more general. The word "Oorja" rarely > >>> appears. > >>> > >>> Does anyone know if there have been any Oorja test results > reported > >>> by > >>> any of the major stove testing labs (Aprovecho, EPA, etc)? > >>> > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *From: *"Paal Wendelbo" <[email protected]> > >>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> *Sent: *Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:18:21 PM > >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > >>> > >>> Ron and Paul O > >>> > >>> Into the advertising leaflet of the Oorja stove is written “at end of > >>> flame very little aches is left†and I have tested the stove and can > >>> confirm it is right. I could see sparks up in the air above stove. The > >>> grid > >>> of cast iron 10 mm thick was white yellow about 900-1000˚C and quite > >>> dangerous to handle to take out some few char left. > >>> > >>> With regards Paal W > >>> > >>> *From:* [email protected] > >>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:51 PM > >>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking > >>> stoves<[email protected]> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > >>> > >>> Paul etal: > >>> > >>> I should have added there are some good discussions of the same > >>> stove/cylinder (glass) with numerous types of fuels. And he shows they > >>> obey the same laws - can predict performance (front velocity, power > >>> level > >>> (?) - given the superficial velocty.) > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *From: *[email protected] > >>> *To: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]> > >>> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:44:07 PM > >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > >>> > >>> Paul: > >>> > >>> I know very little on the Oorja stove. But the thesis is mostly > >>> (entirely?) on a packed bed, top lit. It is on the migratory pyrolytic > >>> front (MPF) - so should be applicable to all TLUDs. I would like to > >>> hear > >>> from any/all on whether I am getting the right reading about NOT > >>> consuming > >>> the char. > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> *From: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]> > >>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> *Cc: *[email protected] > >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:12:57 PM > >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. > >>> > >>> Ron, > >>> > >>> I am in Uganda now and have not had a chance to see the thesis. Thank > >>> you for the comments. > >>> > >>> About #3, the Oorja stove is rather heavy for turning over, has a > >>> smallish > >>> fuel chamber meaning not much char and only short TLUD burns, and has a > >>> loose cast iron cup in the bottom that would fall out if the unit is > >>> tipped > >>> over to remove the char. It is designed to NOT be tipped over for > >>> saving > >>> char. > >>> > >>> It is intentionally designed to have continuous burning with the fire > in > >>> the bottom consuming char. And when doing that, the Oorja is NOT > >>> operating in the TLUD mode which is specifically characterized by the > >>> migratory pyrolytic front (MPF), but the Oorja is not with MPF after > the > >>> rather small initial load of fuel has been pyrolyzed. > >>> > >>> Therefore, the Oorja (and most others with forced air FA) essentially > is > >>> NOT a TLUD because it is operated without the MPF except for the > initial > >>> batch of fuel. > >>> > >>> I will be addressing this topic more at the Stove Camp at Aprovecho on > >>> 22 > >>> - 26 July. > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" > >>> Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 > >>> Website: www.drtlud.com > >>> > >>> On 6/27/2013 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> Julien and list > >>> > >>> 1. Thanks very much for providing this cite. I have read most and > >>> find > >>> it to be a well done thesis. I wish we had more like it. > >>> > >>> 2. The concepts of char and TLUDs are in here thoroughly. But nothing > >>> on > >>> the idea of a stove designed to make char. All char is presumed and > >>> desired to be consumed. > >>> > >>> 3. My conclusion (would like to hear more) is that a good case is > made > >>> (not intentionally) for NOT consuming the produced char in a TLUD > (this > >>> one fan-powered and widely sold in India as the "Oorja" (started by > >>> BP)). > >>> Very little gain in overall efficiency as the char is consumed. > >>> > >>> 4. A major advance was his study of the importance of ash in this > >>> "char" > >>> period as a poor radiator - thereby responsible for (undesired) high > >>> char > >>> temperatures. > >>> > >>> 5. Most everything shown as a function of superficial velocity (Vs) - > >>> with 16-17 cm/sec shown as key dividing point in stove behavior.. > Above > >>> which velocity one swtches from char production to char consumption. > I > >>> have not seen this before. > >>> > >>> For his highly automated fan system, measuring Vs was apparently > not > >>> so difficult. Anyone able to give a way to get an easy estimate of Vs, > >>> when there is only natural draft? > >>> > >>> 6. Quite a bit on the importance of low emissions of CO. > >>> > >>> 7. Good information on both the experimental and computational side > of > >>> top-lit (packed bed) stoves. Not much here for rocket stoves. > >>> > >>> Have I got #3 right? > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Stoves mailing list > >>> > >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web > >>> pagehttp:// > lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >>> > >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > >>> site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Stoves mailing list > >>> > >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >>> > >>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >>> > >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site: > >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Stoves mailing list > >>> > >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >>> > >>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >>> > >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site: > >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Stoves mailing list > >>> > >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >>> > >>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >>> > >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site: > >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and > >>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and > >>> is > >>> believed to be clean. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and > >>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and > >>> is > >>> believed to be clean. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Stoves mailing list > >>> > >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >>> > >>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >>> > >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site: > >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Paul A. Olivier PhD > >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > >> Dalat > >> Vietnam > >> > >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > >> Skype address: Xpolivier > >> http://www.esrla.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stoves mailing list > >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >> [email protected] > >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >> > >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
