About 350 C Crispin From BB9900
-----Original Message----- From: Alex English <[email protected]> Sender: "Stoves" <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 21:35:14 To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. What do you think the maximum service temperature of SS 304 is in a stove environment? Alex On 30/06/2013 9:22 PM, M. Nurhuda wrote: > Paul and all, > > I agree with you. The char combustion is very dangerous to the plat > material of burning chamber. My experiences, the combustion chamber will > be damaged within 2-3 months if it is long exposed in a strong char > combustion mode, even the plat material is SS 304. > > Moreover, to be wise is a better way to conserve nature. The soil has > right to get biochar in term of combustion residue to maintain the soil > fertility. This, not only good for soil, but also for CO2 reduction. > > Regards > M. Nurhuda > > > >> Varun, >> >> You say that with the Oorja, 70% of the total energy is delivered in >> flaming mode and 30% in char mode. But would this not apply to all TLUDs? >> In my case, if I leave the fan on after the flaming mode is finished, a >> char mode begins. As the char is combusted, the temperature within the >> unit >> climbs incredibly (dangerously) high. >> >> This leads me to ask: why consume the char? Why not stop the process when >> the flaming mode comes to an end? There is an inefficiency that kicks in >> when char is consumed, since this takes place at a considerable distance >> from the pot. >> >> Thanks. >> Paul Olivier >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Varun ShivaKumar >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear Paul, >>> >>> Oorja is exactly TLUD. 70% of the total energy is delivered in flaming >>> mode which involves migratory pyrolysis front (or flame front as >>> discussed >>> in chapter 5). Only 30% energy in the left over char is delivered in the >>> char mode in the manner described by you. You are correct in saying that >>> it >>> is not TLUD in this char mode (in fact it is co-current in char mode as >>> opposed to counter-current in flaming mode) . But in flaming mode it is >>> exactly TLUD. I kindly request you to take this into account when you >>> discuss this at Aprovecho. >>> >>> Varun >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Stoves [[email protected]] on behalf of >>> [email protected] [[email protected]] >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:17 AM >>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Paal Wendelbo >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. >>> >>> Paal and list. >>> >>> The thesis was inspired by the Oorja, and helped to improve it, >>> but >>> the thesis itself is much more general. The word "Oorja" rarely >>> appears. >>> >>> Does anyone know if there have been any Oorja test results reported >>> by >>> any of the major stove testing labs (Aprovecho, EPA, etc)? >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Paal Wendelbo" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:18:21 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. >>> >>> Ron and Paul O >>> >>> Into the advertising leaflet of the Oorja stove is written “at end of >>> flame very little aches is left� and I have tested the stove and can >>> confirm it is right. I could see sparks up in the air above stove. The >>> grid >>> of cast iron 10 mm thick was white yellow about 900-1000˚C and quite >>> dangerous to handle to take out some few char left. >>> >>> With regards Paal W >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:51 PM >>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking >>> stoves<[email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. >>> >>> Paul etal: >>> >>> I should have added there are some good discussions of the same >>> stove/cylinder (glass) with numerous types of fuels. And he shows they >>> obey the same laws - can predict performance (front velocity, power >>> level >>> (?) - given the superficial velocty.) >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *[email protected] >>> *To: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]> >>> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:44:07 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. >>> >>> Paul: >>> >>> I know very little on the Oorja stove. But the thesis is mostly >>> (entirely?) on a packed bed, top lit. It is on the migratory pyrolytic >>> front (MPF) - so should be applicable to all TLUDs. I would like to >>> hear >>> from any/all on whether I am getting the right reading about NOT >>> consuming >>> the char. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Paul Anderson" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Cc: *[email protected] >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:12:57 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves. >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> I am in Uganda now and have not had a chance to see the thesis. Thank >>> you for the comments. >>> >>> About #3, the Oorja stove is rather heavy for turning over, has a >>> smallish >>> fuel chamber meaning not much char and only short TLUD burns, and has a >>> loose cast iron cup in the bottom that would fall out if the unit is >>> tipped >>> over to remove the char. It is designed to NOT be tipped over for >>> saving >>> char. >>> >>> It is intentionally designed to have continuous burning with the fire in >>> the bottom consuming char. And when doing that, the Oorja is NOT >>> operating in the TLUD mode which is specifically characterized by the >>> migratory pyrolytic front (MPF), but the Oorja is not with MPF after the >>> rather small initial load of fuel has been pyrolyzed. >>> >>> Therefore, the Oorja (and most others with forced air FA) essentially is >>> NOT a TLUD because it is operated without the MPF except for the initial >>> batch of fuel. >>> >>> I will be addressing this topic more at the Stove Camp at Aprovecho on >>> 22 >>> - 26 July. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" >>> Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 >>> Website: www.drtlud.com >>> >>> On 6/27/2013 2:43 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> Julien and list >>> >>> 1. Thanks very much for providing this cite. I have read most and >>> find >>> it to be a well done thesis. I wish we had more like it. >>> >>> 2. The concepts of char and TLUDs are in here thoroughly. But nothing >>> on >>> the idea of a stove designed to make char. All char is presumed and >>> desired to be consumed. >>> >>> 3. My conclusion (would like to hear more) is that a good case is made >>> (not intentionally) for NOT consuming the produced char in a TLUD (this >>> one fan-powered and widely sold in India as the "Oorja" (started by >>> BP)). >>> Very little gain in overall efficiency as the char is consumed. >>> >>> 4. A major advance was his study of the importance of ash in this >>> "char" >>> period as a poor radiator - thereby responsible for (undesired) high >>> char >>> temperatures. >>> >>> 5. Most everything shown as a function of superficial velocity (Vs) - >>> with 16-17 cm/sec shown as key dividing point in stove behavior.. Above >>> which velocity one swtches from char production to char consumption. I >>> have not seen this before. >>> >>> For his highly automated fan system, measuring Vs was apparently not >>> so difficult. Anyone able to give a way to get an easy estimate of Vs, >>> when there is only natural draft? >>> >>> 6. Quite a bit on the importance of low emissions of CO. >>> >>> 7. Good information on both the experimental and computational side of >>> top-lit (packed bed) stoves. Not much here for rocket stoves. >>> >>> Have I got #3 right? >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web >>> pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web >>> site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and >>> is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and >>> is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Paul A. Olivier PhD >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong >> Dalat >> Vietnam >> >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) >> Skype address: Xpolivier >> http://www.esrla.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > >
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