I was doing a little work related research on the Star Tribune website this morning and ran across the following job ad:
ACTIVIST Summer Jobs to Defeat Bush Grassroots Campaigns is hiring local staff for the DNC's grassroots effort. Help win back the White House! Call Sam at 651-641-xxxx $300-$500/week Four leadership positions ($1,600-$2,500/MO) email resume: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's the link to company's web site: http://grassrootscampaigns.org/ In order to save you time here's a listing for one of the jobs offered on that website: "Canvasser Door-to-door canvassing (fundraising) and voter contact." I have no idea if this is the same company that employs the red t-shirt clad solicitors at the Farmer's Market, but if I were a betting man................ What's clear is that the DNC is outsourcing it's fundraising to a business. Anyone know what percentage of contributions the DNC gets from this company? If this is the future of political fundraising in the post-telemarketing age, God save us. Back to the Farmer's Market discussion: I understand that the sensibilities of this discussion group are mostly favorable to DNC solicitors at the Farmer's Market. Allowing this marauding band of clipboard carrying PAID solicitors at the Market is an invitation to any and every public interest group to send in their own band of roving professional buttonholers. I wonder how charitable Dan and Andy and Charlie and Mary and Eric and others would be if the RNC or pro-life groups sent in their toadies to accost unsuspecting market-goers? I was at the Farmer's Market on Sunday. A couple of the folks in DNC t-shirts were standing right off the curb on the northeast corner of the market. Others were across the street on the south side of the market. When corn and tomatoes start showing up in the next few weeks, the market will be mobbed most of the morning. Having these folks - and others like them - hang out on the periphery makes a lot of practical sense - and no one's free speech rights are being violated. Non-issue. Enjoy the summer. Paul Gleeson St. Paul -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jon Kerr Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 6:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [StPaul] Farmers Market & free speech Several additional thoughts about the Farmers Market and free speech: This is both a specific situation of concern (I'd repeat my earlier questions regarding Farmer's Market general operations and openness even while they seek more St. Paul public support) and a more general problem as Andy points out in his post. And it is not just law enforcement that is responsible nor does it only happen in the context of political campaigns. Indeed, candidates may even get an easier going - given their visibility and their potential power if elected. More often limitations on free speech come in more subtle ways and I'd argue come from both left and right. One of my increasing frustrations in recent years of community newspaper publishing was the number of public and semi-public places willing to put arbitrary restrictions or fees on distribution of literature that particularly limit the smaller voices. I'm talking not just about stores and malls but even government locations and even public libraries or others who count themselves as staunch defenders of the First Amendment! Perhaps it is in relation to niche marketing or just to the increasing number of garish yellow or red streetcorner boxes or the trashy, so-called entertainment publications that also irritate me on several levels. But it seems to me a small price to pay and a disturbing sign of growing kneejerk intolerance for things we find personally upsetting, impolite or just plain untidy. The same principle seems to be carrying over into other civic areas. Open Meeting laws have been virtually forgotten as a principle in recent years - usually in the name of efficiency. Some of our major influential bodies e.g. the Saint Paul Riverfront Corporation, have been allowed to take on a quasi-private legal status that does not even require them to announce when they meet. And I've even seen some neighborhood leaders who like to boast here and elsewhere about their role in grassroots democracy demonstrate a willingness to operate behind closed doors when convenient. Interestingly, the principal of "privatization" is a relatively recent legal phenomenon (you won't find it anywhere in the Constitution) and a bit of a double-edged sword that persons of all political colors ought to be concerned about. While we can all think of examples where we wouldn't wish to be disturbed or of abuses of speech, I would argue that those instances are increasingly outweighed by the dangers of social polarization and gated community intellectualism that often keep us from having a decent discourse (except of course in this forum!) Is this the society that we have come to? Jon Kerr West Side ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:32 PM Subject: Stpaul Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9 > Send Stpaul mailing list submissions to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Stpaul digest..." > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Please - Take the St. Paul Job Shadow Survey > Just 15 Questions: > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=70658501784 > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. No Authentic Irish Pubs in St. Paul (M Charles Swope) > 2. Re: St. Paul Legislative Delegation (Tim Erickson) > 3. RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market (Tom & Elsa Thompson) > 4. Re: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market (Jane Prince) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:02:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: M Charles Swope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] No Authentic Irish Pubs in St. Paul > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Too bad none of the faux Irish places in town don't > try for some authenticity. That would require banning > smoking now that real Irish pubs don't allow it. At > least one Irish pub in England has adopted this > approach. See: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/dorset/3868331.stm > > "Mike McCarthy, joint owner ..., [said]: 'The pub > opened on Friday and we've been extremely busy. > > Everyone's been very positive about the non-smoking > policy - especially the ladies - who don't like going > home with their clothes smelling of smoke. > > We didn't do it as a marketing ploy - it just seemed > the right thing to do. > > Smoking and drinking are seen as going hand-in-hand, > but I don't think that should be the case.'" > > It'd be nice to see the Dubliner or Costello's provide > us with a REAL Irish pub. > > Charlie Swope > Ward 1 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:03:40 -0500 > From: Tim Erickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [StPaul] St. Paul Legislative Delegation > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > At 8:14 AM -0400 7/6/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Some are missing. We have a list posted at > >http://www.stpaulneat.org/St_Paul_Delegation2.html > > I checked the NEAT list for the St. Paul delegation. According to the > NEAT list, parts of district 39 and 55 would be in St. Paul. > > However, authoritive sources on the East Side assure me that district > 55 no longer includes any part of St. Paul (although, apparently it > used to). It appears, that district 55 covers most of Maplewood. See > PDF map: > > http://www.gis.leg.mn/l2002/pdf/55.pdf > > Now, unless I'm mistaken - that would mean that district 39 covers > South St. Paul and other areas south of St. Paul. But, South St. Paul > is a separate city. District 39 appears to border the "West Side" of > St. Paul, which of course, is really the Southern part of St. Paul > proper. > > ;-( > > See PDF Map: > > http://www.gis.leg.mn/l2002/pdf/39.pdf > > Is everyone confused? > > ================================================= > So Until Proven Otherwise, This Appears To Be the > Entire St. Paul Legislative Delegation > ------------------------------------------------- > > 64 Richard Cohen (Senator) > 64A Matt Entenza (Representative) > 64B Michael Paymar (Representative) > > 65 Sandra Pappas (Senator) > 65A Cy Thao (Representative) > 65B Carlos Mariani (Representative) > > 66 Ellen Anderson (Senator) > 66A John Lesch (Representative) > 66B Alice Hausman (Representative) > > 67 Mee Moua (Senator) > 67A Tim Mahoney (Representative) > 67B Sheldon Johnson (Representative) > > District 66 also includes parts of Falcon Heights. > > ================================================= > > Tim Erickson > Hamline Midway > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > ================================================= > Tim Erickson http://www.politalk.com > St. Paul, MN - USA 651-643-0722 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] iChat/AIM: stpaultim > ================================================= > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:11:47 -0500 > From: "Tom & Elsa Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market > To: "stpaul forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > "We then said "Great! This is public land, paid for > with public tax dollars,........."And then after we're > arrested and beat the rap, we'll sue you and Mayor > Coleman under 42 USC 1983 which is the Federal Civil > Rights law."" > > "Until I am shown that the Farmers Market is private > land, I would tell any candidate or any group with any > issue that they have a right to wander the Farmers' > Market freely and at will. It is disturbing that City > officials appear to be limiting the exercise of Free > Speech under the First Amendment there." > > > Ok, I have a question or two on this; > > If I or someone else rents public property (Como Park Pavillion, Conservatory, etc) for a wedding, family reunion, company picnic, or any other private event, I or anyone else can walk into that area with full first amendment rights and talk politics or hand out candidate information? Since this is public land, it really can't be rented and used for private functions? > > Is this the society that we have come to? In order to show our political opponents that we can, so we will? > > My opinion is that we should respects someone's rights to political free speech. At the same time we should respect those who are trying to do commerce or have a wedding, on public property, to be able to do so with some rights of privacy. Just because it is a commerce oriented function as opposed to a wedding makes the lease or rental payment no less important to the person having the function. > > Tom Thompson > Como Park > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:31:46 -0500 > From: "Jane Prince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] Re: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > I will be happy to look into the Farmer's Market's claim that by leasing > the public sidewalk, the market can prohibit political activities. > Thanks to Mary Zanmiller for bringing this to our attention. > > In Nov. 2002, I was part of a public demonstration at the Xcel Center. > Ramsey County Sheriff's deputies prohibited demonstrators from being on > the sidewalk directly in front of Xcel. When I checked with St. Paul > Police, they upheld the view I had of the city ordinance that political > activity cannot be prohibited from the public sidewalk. Police officers > allowed us to come across the street, march, and hold signs, despite the > directives of the Ramsey County Sheriff. Since that time, our office > (Ward 4, City Council) has put several groups in touch with the St. Paul > Police to clarify this policy before planned demonstrations. Deputy > Chief Dick Gardell has been a wonderful guardian of this city > ordinance. > > It would be unfortunate to prohibit political candidates from engaging > the public at the Farmer's Market. No shopper is obligated to talk to > political candidates, but the market has always been a great informal > gathering place for community networking and discussion. > > Jane Prince, Legislative Aide > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/04/04 08:21AM >>> > Send Stpaul mailing list submissions to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Stpaul digest..." > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Please - Take the St. Paul Job Shadow Survey > Just 15 Questions: > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=70658501784 > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market (Mary C. Zanmiller) > 2. RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market (Paul Gleeson) > 3. RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > (Tom & Elsa Thompson) > 4. Re: RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > 5. RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market (Eric Mitchell) > 6. RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market (Tom & Elsa Thompson) > 7. RE: RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market (Guy Western) > 8. Re: Re: District Council Overhaul ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > 9. Re: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:13:02 -0500 > From: "Mary C. Zanmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I witnessed the worst of contemporary USA at the Saint Paul Farmers' > Market this morning (July 3, 2004). A Democratic National Committee > (DNC) worker was conversing with two people on the sidewalk along the > southwest corner of the Saint Paul Farmers' Market. As I walked by > the > market manager was telling the DNC worker that he could not talk to > people at the Market. I indignantly interfered and said, "He has a > right to speak with people." The Market manager replied, "No, he > doesn't, and customers are complaining." One of the people he was > speaking to said, "I am a customer and I want to talk with him." I > added, "On a public sidewalk he has a right to free speech." The > Market > manager replied, "The Market leases the sidewalk as well and he has to > leave." I replied, "The next time I see our Republican mayor speaking > to people at the Market I will find you and you will have to ask him > to > leave." > > This is plain wrong. The people of Saint Paul paid for this market. > Hundred of thousands of public dollars was recently invested to > upgrade > this space. The people of Saint Paul generously support the market by > buying from the farmers selling their products. So in Saint Paul we > no longer honor the free speech that is guaranteed in the > constitution. > Many times I have seen Mayor Randy Kelly and Senator Norman Coleman > shaking hands as they campaign for their next great office. So some > people can campaign and others can't? Who gets to choose? Who sets > the > litmus test? > > The Saint Paul Farmers' market is the commons if their ever was one. > How ironic that this happened the day before our observance of the > Declaration of Independence - the birth of democracy, with its' > guarantee of free speech. > > You know it makes me want to sign up to be a DNC volunteer, I think I > will take the Northwest corner and the sun won't be in my eyes. If > any > readers know how I can join up; please contact me. > > It is a time-honored tradition for the Saint Paul Farmers' Market to > be > a public space. What happened this morning is a "tragedy of the > commons." The Saint Paul Farmers' Market should honor free speech and > never, ever again kick people out that are engaged in our democratic > process. > > Happy 4th of July. > > Peace follows freedom and justice, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mary C. Zanmiller > West Seventh Neighborhood > Saint Paul, MN USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:38:56 -0500 > From: "Paul Gleeson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [StPaul] Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: "Mary C. Zanmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Mary, > > I have watched clip-board-carrying, fresh-faced young people wearing > DNC > t-shirts accost pedestrians at the Grand and Victoria intersection. I > wonder........are they volunteers or do they receive compensation for > contributions collected? Do you know? > > Greenpeace and other environmental organizations commonly employ > commissioned sales representatives to canvass neighborhoods in St. > Paul > selling memberships. For many of us, it's turned into a joke and, > frankly, > I feel sorry for the young idealists who take these jobs. Has the DNC > adopted this model? > > As far as the Farmer's Market is concerned.........I see candidates > and/or > their volunteers there all the time during the two or three weekends > before > a primary or general election. I suspect there will be no change this > year. > Benanev was there a lot and nobody kicked him out. > > Isn't Randy Kelly a Democrat? How many years in the legislature? > What's > this Republican stuff? > > Enjoy the 4th. > > Paul Gleeson > St. Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of Mary C. Zanmiller > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:13 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [StPaul] Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > > I witnessed the worst of contemporary USA at the Saint Paul Farmers' > Market this morning (July 3, 2004). A Democratic National Committee > (DNC) worker was conversing with two people on the sidewalk along the > southwest corner of the Saint Paul Farmers' Market. As I walked by > the > market manager was telling the DNC worker that he could not talk to > people at the Market. I indignantly interfered and said, "He has a > right to speak with people." The Market manager replied, "No, he > doesn't, and customers are complaining." One of the people he was > speaking to said, "I am a customer and I want to talk with him." I > added, "On a public sidewalk he has a right to free speech." The > Market > manager replied, "The Market leases the sidewalk as well and he has to > leave." I replied, "The next time I see our Republican mayor speaking > to people at the Market I will find you and you will have to ask him > to > leave." > > This is plain wrong. The people of Saint Paul paid for this market. > Hundred of thousands of public dollars was recently invested to > upgrade > this space. The people of Saint Paul generously support the market by > buying from the farmers selling their products. So in Saint Paul we > no longer honor the free speech that is guaranteed in the > constitution. > Many times I have seen Mayor Randy Kelly and Senator Norman Coleman > shaking hands as they campaign for their next great office. So some > people can campaign and others can't? Who gets to choose? Who sets > the > litmus test? > > The Saint Paul Farmers' market is the commons if their ever was one. > How ironic that this happened the day before our observance of the > Declaration of Independence - the birth of democracy, with its' > guarantee of free speech. > > You know it makes me want to sign up to be a DNC volunteer, I think I > will take the Northwest corner and the sun won't be in my eyes. If > any > readers know how I can join up; please contact me. > > It is a time-honored tradition for the Saint Paul Farmers' Market to > be > a public space. What happened this morning is a "tragedy of the > commons." The Saint Paul Farmers' Market should honor free speech and > never, ever again kick people out that are engaged in our democratic > process. > > Happy 4th of July. > > Peace follows freedom and justice, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mary C. Zanmiller > West Seventh Neighborhood > Saint Paul, MN USA > > > _____________________________________________ > To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _____________________________________________ > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > Archive Address: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 20:16:09 -0500 > From: "Tom & Elsa Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: "stpaul forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Is no place off limits for the DNC/DFL? Can't we go anywhere without > having to hear politics? I don't care if it's the DNC/DFL or GOP. When > I go to the Farmers Market I want to shop amongst the fresh produce and > not amongst the stench of politics. Please leave politics out of some > places in our lives. > > If they actually do lease the property than they pay to be there. > Whether or not public dollars went into the project is of no relevance. > Only the terms of the lease the city signed. If you have a grievance it > is not with the Farmers Market it is with your city council, or > whomever, signed the lease that gave the lease rights to the Farmers > Market. > > Tom Thompson > Como Park > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:17:06 -0500 (CDT) > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [StPaul] RE: Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: "Tom & Elsa Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: stpaul forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > If you want to stay away from politics, you should stay away from all > forms of organized public spaces, including farmers markets and public > roads, libraries, post offices, medical centers, restaurants and > bridges. > How do you think any of these things would come to be without the > vision > and effort of competent people who choose to devote themselves to > public > service? > > I think that the attitude that you profess, that politics has a > "Stench", > is a deadly one for our civilization, and you should be ashamed of such > an > attitude. While some politicians behave shamfully, there is no lack > of > similar shameful behavior among every form on human endeaver, from > religion to business to education to labor. This is just the human > condition. You always will have bad people, in every profession, from > the > priesthood to the oil business. > > I personally want to thank all the people who serve us, the public, by > running for office, serving in office, and putting up with unfounded > and > unfair criticism like Tom Thompson expresses here. > > Bob Treumann, Como Park > > Tom & Elsa Thompson said: > > Is no place off limits for the DNC/DFL? Can't we go anywhere without > > having to hear politics? I don't care if it's the DNC/DFL or GOP. > When I > > go to the Farmers Market I want to shop amongst the fresh produce and > not > > amongst the stench of politics. Please leave politics out of some > places > > in our lives. > > > > If they actually do lease the property than they pay to be there. > Whether > > or not public dollars went into the project is of no relevance. Only > the > > terms of the lease the city signed. If you have a grievance it is > not > > with the Farmers Market it is with your city council, or whomever, > signed > > the lease that gave the lease rights to the Farmers Market. > > > > Tom Thompson > > Como Park > > -- > Bob Treumann, Saint Paul > Please Note: Replies to this email address all go to the trash except > where the subject line contains a recognized mailing list identifier, > such > as [TCMETRO],[StPaul], MP-N ... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 21:11:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: Eric Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [StPaul] Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: Paul Gleeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mary C. Zanmiller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > --- Paul Gleeson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mary, > > > > I have watched clip-board-carrying, fresh-faced > > young people wearing DNC ste > > t-shirts accost pedestrians at the Grand and > > Victoria intersection. I > > wonder........are they volunteers or do they receive > > compensation for > > contributions collected? Do you know? > > I do know. The answer is no. As a matter of fact, most > Democratic fundraisers are paid a fee/salary that is > constant. It does not change with increase amounts > raised or goals missed. It's different on the > Republican side and some non-profits. If these kids > were really from the DNC, they are paid some kind of > low monthly stipend or are volunteers who are > reimbursed expenses. > It's not about the money, it's about grassroots > support idealism. > > Yes, the Farmer's Market recently received about 1 > million dollars from the St Paul taxpayers. Ask the > manager did he care about politics when he came to St > Paulites with is hat in his hand looking for a million > dollars. The 'stench' was sweet green back then. > > For those who want to get away from being 'bothered' > while shopping fruit, you always got Cubs and Rainbow. > It's inside on private property. > > Happy Fourth! > > Eric Mitchell > Payne Phalen > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 00:04:59 -0500 > From: "Tom & Elsa Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [StPaul] RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market > To: "stpaul forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I didn't criticize anyone in political office (although I will often > criticize the DNC/DFL positions, as they deserve it). I praise my > President George W Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. I praise my > governor Tim Pawlenty. They are making the hard choices and good > decisions for all of us. > > Just leave your political propaganda out of my face when I'm not > specifically looking for it, such as on this forum. To tell me I can't > go to the Farmers Market without having DNC/DFL "volunteers" in my face > is ridiculous. It should be my right not to have to listen to > propagandists' garbage (on either side) amongst the sweet smell of > flowers. Keep your politics where it belongs, in political forums and > the political arena. Not everywhere that's public is a place that has > to have politics drug up. > > I served the public for 21 years as a public servant. I know what it > takes. I also know that politics has taken on a stench in the last few > years. The agenda of personal destruction is prevelant. It's a win at > all cost scenario now. That's not politics, that's whats destructive > and endangers our civilization. Wanting to be free from vile personal > attacks while shopping is not too much to ask. > > By the way, since that property is leased, it's not public property > while the Farmers Market is there. They have a lease to use and occupy > that space. > > I hope the list manager notices that a party did single me out by name > and that the list manager will take appropriate action against that > person. > > Tom Thompson > Como Park > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 02:31:30 -0500 > From: "Guy Western" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [StPaul] RE: Public Space and the Farmers Market > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Tom & Elsa Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > I praise my President George W Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. > > I praise my governor Tim Pawlenty. They are making the hard choices > > and good decisions for all of us. > > In order to be worthy of anyone's praise, these men had better do > their > duty to uphold every citizen's constitutional right of free speech and > assembly. Just because I might characterize or imagine any encounter, > or > potential encounter, with an opposing political viewpoint as > "propaganda", > "garbage", "in my face", or "vile personal attacks" isn't really > adequate > justification for more trampling on the constitutional freedom of > other > Americans. > > I'm not sure about the fine points of how much of the sidewalk, curb > and > paved parking areas of the Farmers' Market are leased or sublet by whom > or > from whom, but it has the overwhelming appearance of a public market > place. > Somewhere between your parked car and your favorite fruit stand, > someone's > right to carry a clipboard and talk about politics is going to be > constitutionally protected, as well it should be. I'm willing to bet > that > the behavior described here, even if it involves TWO people in khaki > shorts > with clipboards asking to take a moment of your time, falls far short > of > anything that could be considered riot. > > Political speech isn't protected because it's "garbage"; it's a > primary > freedom--one we should celebrate even as we praise our leaders. > Political > volunteers can walk right up to the front door of your home. You, of > course, can turn them away. In the Farmers' Market, you can just keep > walking if you don't care to listen and, I assure you, the flowers > will > smell just as sweet. > > Guy Western > the West Side > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 03:24:43 EDT > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [StPaul] Re: District Council Overhaul > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > A couple of points on this, first I may have been the one yelling the > loudest > about the funding formula but the initiative and my instructions to act > on it > came from the District 2 Board. > > The City created the District Council system in the 70's by recognizing > those > neighborhoods that were politically active at the time and creating > Districts > where there were not active identified neighborhood organizations (East > Side > and North End). The Districts were no where near equal in size or > population. > District Councils were originally funded on a case by case grant basis > and > in the early 80's that meant that the best grant writers got the most > money. > In 1990 the current funding formula was developed that gave 80% of the > money > evenly to each district and 20% proportionately (making sure to "hold > harmless" > those districts who had larger grants than the formula would allow). > > The proposed formula is 75% population, 15% poverty index, 5% > non-English > speaking, 5% jobs. So, you start with the current funding for the > system, take > 75% of it and distribute it based on a districts population, next you > take 15% > of the money and base it on a district population below 100% of poverty > (15% > is the number of people in St. Paul who fall below that line), then you > take 5% > of the monies and divide it by the number on non-English speaking > adults > (city total) and lastly you take 5% and divide it based on the number > of jobs in > the district. > > The total is the amount that each district would receive. The > additional > $116,000 that is needed is to bring the six smallest districts up to > $37,000 a > year. That is Downtown, West Seventh Street, Summit Hill, St. Anthony > Park, > Como, and Hamline Midway. Under the above formula these small district > don't > reach that level of funding and the additional money is needed to make > them > viable. > > Though there is general agreement on this being a better formula there > is one > district that is looking for a significant increase (to complicated to > get > into) not under the proposed guidelines and finding the additional > dollars to > make this happen is also in question. We shall see if it passes. The > lack of > fairness in the system is not spread out but concentrated in Wards 5, 6 > and > part of 3 (Highland). Wards 2 and 4 lose nothing if this falls apart > since all > of the highly funded small districts are in those two wards and the > impact in > Ward 1 and 7 is marginal. > > Chuck Repke > District 2 E. D. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 08:21:34 -0500 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [StPaul] Public space and the St. Paul Farmers Market > To: "Mary C. Zanmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I was also at the farmer's market yesterday and saw the workers. I > too am a > customer who talked with the workers - (for disclosure's sake I am a > long time > active DFLer) Their approach was standard street organizing and it > was fun to > see non-ad based political action going on. > > What is interesting is that over the years political activity at the > market jas > occurred often. I may be wrong but I believe I have seen > representative of both > mayoral campaigns in the last few campaigns there. Along with other > statewide > offices. > > Sadly my last conversation with Paul Wellstone was at the market on the > Saturday > before the plane went down. I will alway carry a bittersweet memory of > Paul > shaking hands and litsening to the"customers" as he moved through the > crowd. > > > > Quoting "Mary C. Zanmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > I witnessed the worst of contemporary USA at the Saint Paul Farmers' > > Market this morning (July 3, 2004). A Democratic National Committee > > (DNC) worker was conversing with two people on the sidewalk along > the > > southwest corner of the Saint Paul Farmers' Market. As I walked by > the > > market manager was telling the DNC worker that he could not talk to > > people at the Market. I indignantly interfered and said, "He has a > > right to speak with people." The Market manager replied, "No, he > > doesn't, and customers are complaining." One of the people he was > > speaking to said, "I am a customer and I want to talk with him." I > > added, "On a public sidewalk he has a right to free speech." The > Market > > manager replied, "The Market leases the sidewalk as well and he has > to > > leave." I replied, "The next time I see our Republican mayor > speaking > > to people at the Market I will find you and you will have to ask him > to > > leave." > > > > This is plain wrong. The people of Saint Paul paid for this market. > > Hundred of thousands of public dollars was recently invested to > upgrade > > this space. The people of Saint Paul generously support the market > by > > buying from the farmers selling their products. So in Saint Paul > we > > no longer honor the free speech that is guaranteed in the > constitution. > > Many times I have seen Mayor Randy Kelly and Senator Norman Coleman > > shaking hands as they campaign for their next great office. So some > > people can campaign and others can't? Who gets to choose? Who sets > the > > litmus test? > > > > The Saint Paul Farmers' market is the commons if their ever was one. > > How ironic that this happened the day before our observance of the > > Declaration of Independence - the birth of democracy, with its' > > guarantee of free speech. > > > > You know it makes me want to sign up to be a DNC volunteer, I think > I > > will take the Northwest corner and the sun won't be in my eyes. If > any > > readers know how I can join up; please contact me. > > > > It is a time-honored tradition for the Saint Paul Farmers' Market to > be > > a public space. What happened this morning is a "tragedy of the > > commons." The Saint Paul Farmers' Market should honor free speech > and > > never, ever again kick people out that are engaged in our democratic > > process. > > > > Happy 4th of July. > > > > Peace follows freedom and justice, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Mary C. Zanmiller > > West Seventh Neighborhood > > Saint Paul, MN USA > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _____________________________________________ > > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: > > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > > > Archive Address: > > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _____________________________________________ > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > Archive Address: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > _____________________________________________ > For state and national discussions see: > http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > End of Stpaul Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 > ************************************ > > > ------------------------------ > > _____________________________________________ > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > Archive Address: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > _____________________________________________ > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > End of Stpaul Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9 > ************************************ > _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
