On Mar 11, 2005, at 9:38 AM, popman wrote:
Russ, the average salary for a sergeant is around 55K a year. They run from 49 to 63 K nationally. And since we seem to keep trimming funding to the very schools that need it the most, we can look forward to a much more swollen criminal demographic. One of my best friends teaches elementary in Osseo, and is closely attuned to the correlation of funding to abilities to succeed at what they are trying to accomplish there. He knows that having a stable home with good parenting comes first, and that we cannot rely on our schools to compensate for a lack thereof, but that is the real expectation from a good part of the state's population.
Bob, [The biggest reason why we don't have a greater crime rate is because this city doesn't have the hard attitude of big cities like LA / NYC / Chicago. We have more educational opportunities here in relation to the population, which softens attitudes. The cops in those other cities make $40k and some make LESS!
I moved her after growing up in Chicago. I have been beaten and threatened by Chicago cops, and I really don't see that happening here. St Paul is neither small or silly. It was home to most of the worst gangsters in the thirties (I know- a little irrelevant, but still....) and has today neighborhoods I won't walk through at night, some very near me. I should note that I am a third degree black belt and am not unfamiliar with being shot at.( Three times.)
St. Paul is a silly little small to medium "marshmallow" city and we simply don't need to gold plate our cops.
It seems like you have a vendetta. It also seems like you don't actually know any cops. I'm sorry to be this accusatory, and I never thought I would grow up to defend cops (I was pretty radical in my younger days), but there is so much to that lifestyle and its downsides that you fail to mention. Not every cop gets shot at every day, true. But every one puts him or herself in the position to be, frequently. But that is only part of the package.
The ratings driven, capitalistically forced media likes to sensationalize police "work" by over-emphasizing the "danger factor". Don't think that the cops don't take full advantage (capitalism) of this at contract time and in their public relations. In reality, there's very little "danger factor" involved in being a cop in a soft city like St. Paul. There are more dangerous jobs in this city than being a cop.
Take a stroll through some of those small problems.
Admittedly, we do have some SMALL problem areas that require more policing than others, however, small problem areas does not a city make!
OK, not my post, here.....From your post, it would seem that we currently havemore than enough police power to handle it.
Well, see my above comment on teachers. As far as the difference between firefighters and police, it is comparing apples to oranges in terms of their need and value. One is significantly proactive and the other reactive. And I don't mean to minimize firefighters' efforts to prevent fires, either!
We need to kiss a lot more teachers and firefighters and lot less cops.
Please don't lump in the firefighters and teachers as they are the people who ACTUALLY DO some work. Your paramedics come from the fire department and not the cop-shop. The unfortunate teachers don't have built-in media glorified assistance working for them. They have to prove their value and be held accountable for every thing they do. They should be paid more because they're worth more to the citizens. The cops, on the other hand, are just report takers, and rarely do they ever "solve" a crime. Usually a citizen has to POINT THE COP in the right direction!
You don't have to "point" a firefighter to the fire or a teacher to the classroom!
Do you actually know anyone who smokes crack? If you do, ask him how many houses near you are involved. As far as the mayor and his campaign, I think he has lost credibility with us in terms of his support for public services with the reduction of team strength on fire trucks.
The city is not experiencing a "crime wave" and why a disingenuous Kelly wants even more cops is probably just another grandstand on his re-election bid and it's being funded by the over-worked and under-paid taxpayers! Why should the taxpayers be forced to INDIRECTLY assist in funding items on the mayor's re-election resume?
I am in total agreement with you on the treatment vs enforcement thing. But for the time being, I still have to worry about the thug phase.
What if we took the some of the money given to the police and fund good paying, living wage jobs for recidivists, maybe they would be LESS tempted to steal and rob? Drug treatment programs instead of jail terms would also help. Wouldn't jail costs be reduced and fund the cost of the programs? (Socialism to rescue!)
This is a bloated, smug and uninformed thing to say. People don't go to school to become police officers because it's the easy way to fast cash, and a clever way to feed at the public trough. "Capitalism" has nothing to do with this point. I have a feeling that you aren't familiar with China and its enormous and omnipresent police force. It was in place long before the Chinese would even consider the word "capitalism" as anything other than the worst pejorative!
In sum: The police practice "advantage taking", (capitalism) and one can easily see where it's gotten us. We now have a bloated gold plated force of statistic writers that can accidentally shoot you and rarely do what they're supposed to do, which is to solve crimes.
At the bottom of it all, it's NOT THE FAULT OF THE POLICE OR THE MEDIA!
It's the fault of an awful capitalistic system that holds us all hostage! ]
Rowdy Russ Hanson. The Truth in St. Paul.
On Mar 10, 2005, at 8:13 AM, popman wrote:
to
Dann points out that the cops are over-worked. Huh?????
Being a cop in St. Paul is the most ridiculous job that one can get paid a whopping $50k / year for! They're not worth half that amount and Kelly wantshire more of them!
St. Paul is not a crime-ridden town unless 3 people spitting on the sidewalk is going to be considered a major crime wave :=)
The cops are definitely not "overworked". They're "over-paid" and "under-worked" is more like it. Did you know that the cops also get TOTALLY FREE HOUSING in St. Paul? It's true!
And that's The Truth in St. Paul.
Rowdy Russ Hanson. The Truth in St. Paul.
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------------------------- JOIN the St. Paul Issues Forum TODAY: http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/ ------------------------------------------------- POST MESSAGES HERE: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
------------------------------------------------- JOIN the St. Paul Issues Forum TODAY: http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/ ------------------------------------------------- POST MESSAGES HERE: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
