Matt,
nicely said. Pretty much what I feel, but could not describe. I guess it comes down to: ITS TOO EARLY. i.e use it for prototypes and dept projects. Don't start designing customer web sites with it until you have sorted out tools, maintenance, evolving xslt/xml specs and so on. Jonathan (who also hates JSP, they are too easy...and thus messy.) ---------------------------------------- Message History ---------------------------------------- From: Matt Raible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 04/02/2002 09:00 PST Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: Boost Struts with XSLT and XML - JavaWorld.com I read this article and think that it is good - but there's a couple of things that I think need to happen before this architecture is "embraced." 1. There needs to be mechanisms for getting internationalization into your XML or XSL. It seems difficult to use messages from a properties files for messages and form labels. By "difficult", I mean harder than it is to use <bean:message> in JSPs. I could see putting them into the XML document, but then it seems that HTML developer type stuff is getting handed off to the Java developer. 2. XSL Templates and examples are difficult to find. I think this technology and concept would rapidly catch-on if there were XSL stylesheets that you could download that would format all your form-elements and other details. If the struts-example where adapted to use this approach, people would jump all over it I'll bet. 3. XSL is difficult to debug, and if we're truly separating view from everything else - good luck finding a "view" developer that knows XSL. I know some of these are irrelevant since we HTML developers are often Java coders and XSL experts... but just my 2 cents. Matt --- Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > See also the Velocity/Struts toolset. > > http://husted.com/struts/resources/velstruts.zip > > and > > http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-velocity-tools/ > > Same basic idea: expose the Struts API as an object that anybody can > easily use, without having to know that Struts even exists. All the > hooks are there, they just aren't as easy to get to as they might be. > > I started a ContextHelper object that did this as part of the core > framework. We pulled it out temporarily while the new multiapps stuff is > going on. But I plan to put it back in so that the default controller > does what the X2 Servlet and Velocity Servlets are doing, in a uniform > way. > > It's my personal opinion that, while JSPs are flexible, these other > technologies work are ever bit as effictive when used as the V in MVC. > > -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. > -- Java Web Development with Struts. > -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. > -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ > > > > "Knoll, Zach" wrote: > > > > This is really cool. I've been struggling with this for a while trying to > > convince myself that everything that comes from SUN must be good and > > beautiful and that those that were ragging on JSP were just fringe loonies. > > I thought the whole struts tag library and tag libraries in general would > > shut up the non-believers by removing spaghetti code from JSP. But from > > experience I am seeing that people will always go the easiest route and > when > > offered a choice between learning how to handle a new tag library API or > > just slopping some java code into your JSP, its the rare coder who wont > take > > the sloppy, easier, impossibly harder to debug 2 months later approach. I > > think I can finally admit now that JSP is just not a clean good technology > > and although I have a lot to learn I'd like to move away from JSP's > > altogether. Simultaneous to my JSP=bad voyage of discovery I was also > > starting to learn Struts and saw and continue to see in Struts stuff that I > > have been doing on my own for a while now, done in a more polished cleaner > > fashion that attracts me to it. This article showing how to have the best > > servlet centric architecture (Struts) while cutting out the dead-weight > > (JSP) really hits home. I just wish they would've provided more code so > > people like myself who are new to xml can really get a sense of how to > > implement this beast. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pete Carapetyan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:17 PM > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Boost Struts with XSLT and XML - JavaWorld.com > > > > This is one of the most well written articles I have ever seen. > > > > At first blush, I am having a difficult time deciding wether this > technology > > is > > totally cool, or it is just such a straightforward presentation that I am > > twitterpated. > > > > Thanks Todd > > > > "Todd G. Nist" wrote: > > > > > I have not seen this posted so, for those interested in using XSLT and > XML > > > with Struts, thought the following article maybe of value. > > > > > > Boost Struts with XSLT and XML > > > An introduction to Model 2X > > > > > > Summary > > > Struts is an innovative server-side Java framework designed to build Web > > > applications. Hosted by the Apache Software Foundation's Jakarta Project, > > > Struts has recently gained wide acceptance in the Java community. In this > > > article, Julien Mercay and Gilbert Bouzeid introduce the processing model > > > underlying Struts, describe the Struts framework itself, and present > Model > > > 2X, which enhances Struts by replacing JSP (JavaServer Pages) with XML > and > > > XSLT (Extensible Stylesheet Language Transformations) to better separate > > > logic and presentation. (2,600 words; February 1, 2002) > > > > > > By Julien Mercay and Gilbert Bouzeid > > > > > > URL: > > http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-02-2002/jw-0201-strutsxslt.html? > > > > > > Todd G. Nist > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > -- > > Pete Carapetyan > > http://datafundamentals.com > > Java Development Services > > > > Open standards technology for commercial profitability > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > ********************************************************************** > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > > are addressed. 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