A couple of naive questions. 1. Given that the authors of the article mention that the Cocoon framework uses XML and XSLT to generate HTML (among other formats), I assume their motivation for using Struts is to gain the MVC framework. Is this correct? Does Velocity also have the same deficiency compared with Struts?
2. Is there any possibility that something like this may become a formal extension to Struts? Thanks, Vaughan. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 9:32 AM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: RE: Boost Struts with XSLT and XML - JavaWorld.com > > > I'm in the process of reading the article ... so no comments > on it yet, but I have done a little XSL/XSLT and am in the > process of converting my personal website to use it. > > 1. I18N. Agreed. This is a problem. Having gotten used to > I18N in my apps, I really have no desire to give it up. > According to the book XSLT (by Doug Tidwell, Pub: O'Reilly, > Aug 2001) it is possible to extend XSL/XSLT with Java > extensions. Could we brave souls not write an XSL/XSLT > extension to give us the I18N that we get in struts-powered > JSPs? On the other hand, as I re-read this before I hit send, > the XSL/XSLT only process the XML that it's given. It's up to > what ever generates the XML to perform the I18N. With a > struts/XSL/XSLT mix, who's responsibility would it be to provide I18N? > > 2. XSL examples. Hmmm. I've written some small ones. They > really aren't that hard. I'm planning to write some HOW-TOs > (ant, junit etc) once my wife delivers our #2 child, and I > take a week off to show support and pull the night shift for > her, but she's T plus 5 days right now, so I'm still here at > work. I'll add some simple XSL/XSLT examples to the list of > things to write. The Tidwell XSLT book has a number of good > examples in it and coupled with his excellent explanations, > is a powerful book. Recommended. (Although being six months > old, I'm sure that it's ready for a re-write! :-) > > Just a few comments before I get back to reading the article. > > Simon > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Simon P. Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Java Programming Specialist www.landsend.com > Lands' End, Inc. (608) 935-4526 > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Matt Raible [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:01 AM > >To: Struts Users Mailing List > >Subject: Re: Boost Struts with XSLT and XML - JavaWorld.com > > > > > >I read this article and think that it is good - but there's a > >couple of things > >that I think need to happen before this architecture is "embraced." > > > >1. There needs to be mechanisms for getting > >internationalization into your XML > >or XSL. It seems difficult to use messages from a > properties files for > >messages and form labels. By "difficult", I mean harder than > >it is to use > ><bean:message> in JSPs. I could see putting them into the XML > >document, but > >then it seems that HTML developer type stuff is getting handed > >off to the Java > >developer. > > > >2. XSL Templates and examples are difficult to find. I think > >this technology > >and concept would rapidly catch-on if there were XSL > >stylesheets that you could > >download that would format all your form-elements and other > >details. If the > >struts-example where adapted to use this approach, people > >would jump all over > >it I'll bet. > > > >3. XSL is difficult to debug, and if we're truly separating > view from > >everything else - good luck finding a "view" developer that > >knows XSL. > > > >I know some of these are irrelevant since we HTML developers > >are often Java > >coders and XSL experts... but just my 2 cents. > > > >Matt > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> See also the Velocity/Struts toolset. > >> > >> http://husted.com/struts/resources/velstruts.zip > >> > >> and > >> > >> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-velocity-tools/ > >> > >> Same basic idea: expose the Struts API as an object that > anybody can > >> easily use, without having to know that Struts even exists. All the > >> hooks are there, they just aren't as easy to get to as they > >might be. > >> > >> I started a ContextHelper object that did this as part of the core > >> framework. We pulled it out temporarily while the new > >multiapps stuff is > >> going on. But I plan to put it back in so that the default > controller > >> does what the X2 Servlet and Velocity Servlets are doing, in > >a uniform > >> way. > >> > >> It's my personal opinion that, while JSPs are flexible, these other > >> technologies work are ever bit as effictive when used as the > >V in MVC. > >> > >> -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. > >> -- Java Web Development with Struts. > >> -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. > >> -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ > >> > >> > >> > >> "Knoll, Zach" wrote: > >> > > >> > This is really cool. I've been struggling with this for a > >while trying to > >> > convince myself that everything that comes from SUN must > >be good and > >> > beautiful and that those that were ragging on JSP were > >just fringe loonies. > >> > I thought the whole struts tag library and tag libraries > >in general would > >> > shut up the non-believers by removing spaghetti code from > >JSP. But from > >> > experience I am seeing that people will always go the > >easiest route and > >> when > >> > offered a choice between learning how to handle a new tag > >library API or > >> > just slopping some java code into your JSP, its the rare > >coder who wont > >> take > >> > the sloppy, easier, impossibly harder to debug 2 months > >later approach. I > >> > think I can finally admit now that JSP is just not a clean > >good technology > >> > and although I have a lot to learn I'd like to move away > from JSP's > >> > altogether. Simultaneous to my JSP=bad voyage of discovery > >I was also > >> > starting to learn Struts and saw and continue to see in > >Struts stuff that I > >> > have been doing on my own for a while now, done in a more > >polished cleaner > >> > fashion that attracts me to it. This article showing how > >to have the best > >> > servlet centric architecture (Struts) while cutting out > >the dead-weight > >> > (JSP) really hits home. I just wish they would've provided > >more code so > >> > people like myself who are new to xml can really get a > >sense of how to > >> > implement this beast. > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Pete Carapetyan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:17 PM > >> > To: Struts Users Mailing List > >> > Subject: Re: Boost Struts with XSLT and XML - JavaWorld.com > >> > > >> > This is one of the most well written articles I have ever seen. > >> > > >> > At first blush, I am having a difficult time deciding wether this > >> technology > >> > is > >> > totally cool, or it is just such a straightforward > >presentation that I am > >> > twitterpated. > >> > > >> > Thanks Todd > >> > > >> > "Todd G. Nist" wrote: > >> > > >> > > I have not seen this posted so, for those interested in > >using XSLT and > >> XML > >> > > with Struts, thought the following article maybe of value. > >> > > > >> > > Boost Struts with XSLT and XML > >> > > An introduction to Model 2X > >> > > > >> > > Summary > >> > > Struts is an innovative server-side Java framework > >designed to build Web > >> > > applications. Hosted by the Apache Software Foundation's > >Jakarta Project, > >> > > Struts has recently gained wide acceptance in the Java > >community. In this > >> > > article, Julien Mercay and Gilbert Bouzeid introduce the > >processing model > >> > > underlying Struts, describe the Struts framework itself, > >and present > >> Model > >> > > 2X, which enhances Struts by replacing JSP (JavaServer > >Pages) with XML > >> and > >> > > XSLT (Extensible Stylesheet Language Transformations) to > >better separate > >> > > logic and presentation. (2,600 words; February 1, 2002) > >> > > > >> > > By Julien Mercay and Gilbert Bouzeid > >> > > > >> > > URL: > >> > > >http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-02-2002/jw-0201-strutsx > slt.html? > >> > > > >> > > Todd G. Nist > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: > >> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Pete Carapetyan > >> > http://datafundamentals.com > >> > Java Development Services > >> > > >> > Open standards technology for commercial profitability > >> > > >> > -- > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > For additional commands, e-mail: > >> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > >> > > >************************************************************* > ********* > >> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > >> > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to > >whom they > >> > are addressed. 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