Good response Ghoot. This has probably been the best response to this whole debate so far.
One thing I have learned about this whole discussion is that you definetely should not marry yourself to one specific technology because that's when you will get into the kind of non-sense this discussion has created at times. I have never used EJB before and I was hoping to learn soon. But Vic says that if you want to stay in java avoid EJB. My response to that is that if you want to stay in java keep an open mind to everything including EJB. That's where I stand on the issue. ********************************************** Juan Alvarado Internet Developer -- Manduca Management (786)552-0504 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL Instant Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: Emaho, Ghoot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:05 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net This has been an interesting discussion on many levels, but there doesnt seem to be much 'real world' substance there. We have been developing enterprise software (some utilising EJB, some not) since EJB were way back at 0.7 (ish) (1997). Systems with 1000's or 10,000's concurrent users. We did it for real - NOT abstract theory. What this discussion has highlighted is that age old thing inthe software industry - bandwagon. You have the media/hype bandwagon, but you also have the 'developer opinion' bandwagon, where certain opinions become flavour of the month. Now it's EJB's are bad, it has been JSP's are bad and so on. Let's get one thing straight - NO technology is perfect. So why do some developers engage in 'my technology is better than yours' type holy wars ? Because they are human and they dont know any better. Thats all. All of the really good developers I've ever known have never subscribed to 'fixed viewpoints' ie EJB = BAD, Microsoft = Evil, Java = whatever. Because they really understand what technology is about. Those who do dig their heels in on any particular standpoint, show only one thing - their ignorance. All technologies have their place and their uses. It's up to a competent Architect to decide what's right for their problem domain. What's right for mine, might not be right for yours. I mean this is elementary stuff ! But many so called developers behave as if they are really engaged in a holy war ! This just makes me laugh :) Leave them too it is all I say... Ultimately you have to make an INFORMED choice - there is no absolute right or wrong way. This should be the number one lesson any developer ever learns, but sadly many never learn it. The beauty of becoming a good developer is to be able to make these informed choices as you create your masterpiece, and not get stuck in the narrow-minded arguments of 'my toy is better than yours' - wether it's an OS, developer tool , language, technology choice or whatever. Because then you resign yourself to reproducing copies of other peoples art. And you make yourself look foolish in the process. This email is not an attack on anyone, and especially not Vic. He has his opinions. Maybe the way he expresses them doesn't appeal to some, and maybe he did it with tongue in cheek to provoke a response. Who knows ? It certainly reveals a lot about the kind of developer he is and thats enough for me. If more developers could have a more altruistic attitude towards the tools they use, then more quality software would be built. I have built software teams for many years, and I have never employed a developer who demonstrates this 'small-minded' mentality. Why ? Because in this industry things (tools, technolgies etc) change quicker than peoples attitudes ! So you have to remain open-minded to succeed. Ultimately, why argue over the tools you are using ? When it's the artwork that really matters. It's time for more developers to take responsibility in these matters. It's easy to play the name calling game - children can do that. But it takes real skill to develop good software, all the more if you are using 'less than perfect' technologies. But that is also part of the challenge. Finally, non-EJB solutions dont always outperfrom EJB solutions - AND VICE VERSA ! We have software in production which operates with large-scale load, using EJB's and the performance is excellent. But this doesnt mean I'm saying EJB's are great. You can make them work for you, but it doesnt come for free. And to say the are outright bad as a solution is simply misinformed. Like anything else, it's not a black and white situation. Ghoot Emaho (ok, yes I'm a tree huggin hippy) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
