Dear Frank,
we should recognized that sundials were found from Hellenistic and Roman times 
with polar-oriented gnomons. But as the sundials then were usually made for 
unequal hours there was no need to use a polar-oriented gnomon.Maybe there was 
found one dial with equal hours: if you look on the winter side of the sundial 
of Oropos (you may get my article under
The Arachne of the Amphiareion and the Origin of Gnomonics in Greece, in: 
Journal for the History of Astronomy 35 (2004), S. 435-445  ) you see that the 
winter circle is not divided in 12 parts as it should be for unequal hours.
There is a picture of the Brunswick dial in my article "Vertical dials  of the 
5th -15th century" in BSS Bulletin No. 96.3, October 1996. Best wishes
Karlheinz.

-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- 
Von: Frank King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Sundial <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Verschickt: Fr., 22. Aug. 2008, 11:49
Thema: Re: equal and unequal hours



Dear Frans,
You ask a very perceptive question:
> > No doubt the transition to equal hours (whether
 > starting at noon, midnight, sunrise or sunset)
 > was gr
dual but I feel it long predates mechanical
 > clocks.
> Do you have any evidence supporting your feeling?
No!  I had heard (from you and others) that the
olar-oriented gnomon was a much later development
han one might guess, sometime around or after 1400
s you say.  Also...
I knew there were mechanical clocks at that time but
 had frogotten that clocks had been=2
0around for a
entury or so by then.
You are almost suggesting (perhaps you are actually
uggesting) that the development of the polar-oriented
nomon was a consequence of the development of
echanical clocks.
A polar-oriented gnomon is not, of course, essential
or indicating equal hours.  Indeed, Italian Hours
re (almost) equal hours but you do not indicate
talian Hours with a polar-oriented gnomon.
My thought (my feeling!) was that Gianni or someone
lse could suggest that sundials showing Italian Hours
ere around before clocks.  His answer is clear:
> The equal hours started to be used after the advent
 of the tower clocks...
This suggests that the advent of tower clocks was
eminal to the popular use of equal hours and, I
ssume, this applies to ANY kind of equal hours
ystem, whether the day started at sunset, sunrise,
oon or midnight.
Given the late development of the polar-oriented
nomon I had assumed that equal hours sundials
tarting at noon or midnight were around before
he introduction of the polar-
riented gnomon.
s this a false assumption?
You say:
> It has been suggested that the pole-style dial
 (and hence equal hours)...
I wonder about the use of the word "hence"?
You don't need a polar-oriented gnomon to
ndicate equal hours (starting at noon or
idnight) although it certainly helps.
I am in danger of going wildly astray!  Maybe
ou could confirm (or refute) the suggestion
hat there were sundials that showed equal
ours starting at noon or midnight before
he advent of the polar-oriented gnonom?
I
 promise not to challenge your answer :-)
Best wishes
Frank
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