Daryl - the principle you're alluding to is that of "cognitive mapping" - in other words, whenever we're perceiving the world, we are always doing it with some prior knowledge - Dreyfuss said "we are always already in a situation" (haven't got the reference to hand)
We know from such things as "ventriloquist effect" and "Franssen effect" (which is also related to precedence effect and transients) that spatial conclusions have a sort of "inertia", a "stickiness" favouring the last solid conclusion. I forget the word for a system-state that tends to stay in one condition until sufficiently disturbed. Anyway, you know what I mean So "prior knowledge" is not simple - and indeed, dominates our perceptual performance. Sensory stimuli just serve as updates cheers ppl Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 ________________________________________ From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Daryl Pierce [da...@darylpierce.com] Sent: 26 November 2014 22:25 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available? This is a very refreshing turn to the conversation on this subject. Our means of settling such localization ambiguity in the wild as it were must be pretty diverse and inventive, sometimes I suppose as simple as prior knowledge of a building layout for example. I hear the clothes dryer above and to my left because I know that's where it is. My brain translates the diffuse confusion of audio bouncing off various walls and the ceiling, presumably discarding the cues that couldn't possibly be correct. It's exiting to think that virtual reality might allow at least a semi-plausible route to studying these interrelated sensory cues a little better. On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote: > actually, I can hear birds downwards from my balcony - not directly below, > but quite steeply below - but they are real birds, not an artificial sound > field. > > But as to whether our acuity "below" is as good as elsewhere - well - it's > not that great upwards (minimum audible angle about 10 degrees? - can't > remember a reference - anyone?) as against dead ahead (0 degrees azimuth, > elevation) where the theoretical best is in the order of 1 - 2 degrees > (ITDs, in the lab - Mills, 1950-something) > > Naturally, own-body shadowing at hf (especially if one is too fond of > beer) is an important consideration. > > One can understand that we're not "fully 3-D" - we live on the ground and > this consistent regularity might be expected to be incorporated > phylogenetically (species level) as well as ontogenetically (individual > experience-and-development) > > Birds have evolved with quite different environmental challenges. They are > probably better at vectoring movements, and if they could converse, > probably would not have the same kind of "azimuth + elevation" thinking > that we do > > But the key point in all this is that head movement and locomotion are > intrinsic to our perceptual performance - we're simply not static receivers > of signals. So "down" is quite easily discernible in the same way that > front-back reversals (and other manifestations of "cones of confusion") can > be quickly disambiguated with a bit of movement, in the wild. > > So the "down problem" in many 3-d sound systems is likely to be something > else... > Dr Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > ________________________________________ > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham [ > dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 26 November 2014 11:39 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio > Available? > > Have I really heard sounds from below me?? Yes, all the time - every time > I walk around (other than a really, really, soft carpet), in stair wells > let alon leaning out of windows, in cable cars, in microlights, hot air > balloons, mesh floored lighting bridges - I could go on and on (and I > frequently do :-). Mind you, it's not as robust as horizontal imaging - > witness what happens if you play recordings of birds flying below you (top > of Bempton Cliffs in Yorkshire), it's impossible - or very nearly so - to > hear them as anything but above. > > Dave > > On 26 November 2014 at 03:22, Sampo Syreeni <de...@iki.fi> wrote: > > > On 2014-11-21, dw wrote: > > > > The state-of-the-art finds it very difficult to render sounds below the > >> listener. > >> > > > > True. But then, at the same time, have you ever truly heard sounds from > > right below yourself? Does even the human auditory system *really* know > > what it means to "hear something from below"? > > > > Think about it or awhile. In the psychoacoustic sense there actually > might > > not even *be* such a thing "due below". > > -- > > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > Dave Malham > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > The University of York > York YO10 5DD > UK > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141126/1321a98d/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent > to you in error, please select unsubscribe. > > Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk > For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk > All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Daryl Pierce www.darylpierce.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141126/88dc975d/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
