See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?" A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity, one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ; https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ ) Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path... Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox University of Derby, Kedleston Road, Derby, DE22 1GB, UK -----Original Message----- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53 To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described academia as a cancer for creativity : http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-debate-110409.html I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed verbally - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems to have been to make those verbal though processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck. On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <951343...@qq.com> wrote: > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say: > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather than > just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that will > limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really > confuse me. > > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music > and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value. > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of music, > that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For composition, as > sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music. > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study sound > composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we will > know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club electronic means > extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with principles, those > sound works will be more humanization and interesting rather than > serious all the time. There are many people have tried to find a more > humanization way to present those art works, combination is one of a choice. > > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists. > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every > senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to create > sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, > sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present. > That's also a interesting point to be research. > > > > > > > ------------------ Original ------------------ > From: "Peter Lennox";<p.len...@derby.ac.uk>; > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<sursound@music.vt.edu>; > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each > other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good > example of audio altering visual perception. > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in > particular instances. > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education > > School of Arts > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk<mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk> > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > University of Derby, > Kedleston Road, > Derby, > DE22 1GB, UK > > ________________________________ > From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine > Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do > with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see > the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being > a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a > sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........ > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on > > the > side > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override > > audio > ones. > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio > > perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your > > phd. > > > > Dave > > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > Wot he said... > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts > > > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > > > University of Derby, > > > Kedleston Road, > > > Derby, > > > DE22 1GB, UK > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > > > Augustine Leudar > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25 > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often > > > override > audio > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like > > > to > play > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with > > > sound > - > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of > cognitive > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the > > > sight of a speaker, to > the > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for > > > listeners > > and > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are > trying > > to > > > transport them to is.. > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and > > > experience > > the > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more > important > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely > override > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use. > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of > > > project > - > > I > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont > actually > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do > > > it > the > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it. > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this > topic - > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR. > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you > > > put > a > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the > > > research is > > determining > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can > > > you > get > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". > > > .....I > am > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you > > > mean - > I > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like > > > technology > to > > be > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party > > > effect and precedence > > etc) . > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of > > > terms > like > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to > > > write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio > > > which > actually > > is > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and > > > not let > yourself > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or > > > that > makes > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really > > engaged. > > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere. > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) > > > > that exist for other than musical reasons - so how can this > > > > principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?" > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in > > > > Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy > > > > and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare > > > > "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the > > > > Knights" (a track on Romeo and > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses. > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of > > > > Debussey) > > > > > > > > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists > > > > interested > in > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/ > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg ) > > > > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that all > > > > academics wrestle with, all their > > lives. > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts > > > > > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > > > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > > > > > University of Derby, > > > > Kedleston Road, > > > > Derby, > > > > DE22 1GB, UK > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf > > > > Of > ?? > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33 > > > > To: sursound <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful. > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit. > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub > > > > questions,here is a brief description : > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the > > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical > > > > information. How to use that information appropriately to create > > > > artwork so that it could arouse people's association and > > > > extra-musical experiences? And, How > to > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates > > > > interesting > > > perception experiences? > > > > > > > > 1.2 Perception > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according > > > > to perception > principles? > > > > 1.3Cognition > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing > > > > knowledge, > > > etc.). > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process, > > > > will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant > > > > information even dramatic experiences? For example, using > > > > symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and > > > > composed them appropriately, it would be act > like > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings > > > > or interact with > artworks > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here. > > > > 1.4 Development > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by > > > > this combination? > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music. > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the > > > > natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we > > > > will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has > > > > happened here, so as "sound > > > sculpture" mentioned here. > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to > > > > form > a > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to > manipulate > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract > > > > the result to form a final dissertation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > Yilin > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > > > scrubbed... > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email > > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to > > > > the sender and let them know. > > > > > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > > scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the > sender > > > and let them know. > > > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the > > University > > > > Dave Malham > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York > > YO10 5DD UK > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170816/5f326f14/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Dr. Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170816/46e24dc3/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the > sender and let them know. > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170817/360dabcc/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170817/0010a730/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - 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