Hi Brian, Tim and all >Tim, > >I couldn't agree more on the need to drive more sanely, with a good >portion of that being to conserve. If you come to Indiana, you'll >recognize me as the other guy not exceeding the speed limit. I >haven't had the luck that you have with staying in the right lane, >but I figure that when folks get irritated with me being so slow, >it's their problem not mine. > >I wasn't aware of air travel being so fuel costly. I guess I always >thought that since so many people were moving at once, it made up >for the large amounts of fuel used to move them. Part of what I >enjoy in life is to visit other parts of the world and try to get a >look at how others live their lives. To give up air travel >completely would mean giving up one of the few things I truly enjoy, >as well as something that changes the way that I view the world, >hopefully for the better. Personally, I think that if more >Americans took advantage of the opportunity to see that we aren't >the only culture on the planet, the world would be a much better >place.
I'm sure you're right about that, but I'm sure it applies to everybody, not just Americans. But especially to Americans? Well, yes or no, I won't argue about that. The trouble is that air travel at current levels with current practices isn't very sustainable, the "externalisations" are horrendous. The externalisations of the tourist industry are also horrendous. The local externalisations of just a single airport are horrendous (there's something in the archives about that). I guess the WW2 British slogan "Is your journey really necessary?" applies, or should do, and the answer a lot of the time has to be "No", whether it's a business trip or a package holiday. For a family visit like Kim's, family visits are necessary and good, and the time restrictions are real enough, but I don't think it'd be like that if air-travel wasn't just assumed and automatically factored in by the powers-that-be who calculate how much "free" time we're to be granted. As for "holidays": "The average 15,000 cubic metres of water needed to irrigate one hectare of high-yielding modern rice is enough for 100 nomads and 450 cattle for three years, or 100 rural families for three years, or 100 urban families for two years. The same amount can supply 100 luxury hotel guests for just 55 days." (UN Food and Agriculture Organization -- FAO.) Tip of the iceberg. It's arguable whether many tourist holidays do anything to broaden the mind. They're just another consumable these days, but it didn't used to be that way, and that wasn't very long ago. People used to travel from Hong Kong to Britain and back by flying boat if they were in a hurry. It took a few days, but nobody complained. (Ah, but the pace of life is faster now - is it really? Not just a delusion?) When they weren't in such a hurry they went by ship. They used to travel from South Africa or Australia to Britain and Europe by ocean liner. Now there are no such ships, just cruise-liners, another consumable. Tim mentioned US subsisides for air-travel as opposed to trains (18 times), and there's no good reason that trains should be a poor cousin. Not for goods transport either - I agree with Todd about airfreight. In Europe (and China) huge amounts of goods go by canal, it doesn't seem to render their economies uncompetitive, not everything has to be there yesterday. The system's rigged all wrong where what must be large amounts of non-urgent goods go by air anyway. As for people, I had a friend who said jet-lag was a myth, that's not what happened at all she said. "My body might go by jet, but my spirit goes by train, and it takes a whole week to catch up. I think I'll stay with my spirit and take the train." Which in her case happened to be the Trans-Siberian Express. I think she's right, but I'd take it further - air-travel is a myth. You can't travel on a Boeing - you might be going somewhere but any travelling you might get to do won't start until after you arrive, if you're in any condition for it. How can an airborne cattle-truck with no leg-room compare with the Trans-Siberian Express? Or an ocean liner? I like flying, if it's in a Cessna or something, but Boeings remind me of those old-fashioned office communications systems powered by compressed air - you get shoved into a capsule and stuck in a pipe, there's a whooshing sound and then you're spat out the other end all crumpled up. What fun. The transportation used to be an integral part of your travelling adventures, now we've cashed that bit in for a bit of "saved" time while the planet takes heavy damage for it. So what to do? Something, surely. What's wrong with flying boats anyway? You and Tim do slow driving, we have slow food, a good movement growing not slowly, here in Japan we've helped start a "slow fuel" movement with biodiesel (it translates better in Japanese, loses the potential "less power" implication), why not slow travel? The steam clubs pay lots of money to ride on steam trains in India, and I think in China and elsewhere. Anybody got a spare Yankee Clipper or a Catalina maybe? What you say about travel broadening the mind though... I read a futuristic novel long ago which had some such thing as a minor theme. Everybody spent a year or two or more travelling, it was more or less compulsory but didn't need any enforcing, everyone accepted it, and there was a good infrastructure for it, worldwide. Such an infrastructure wouldn't cost much, even if most of it were free, which I think it was - fares, hostels and so on. This was between school and college, or maybe between college and starting working life, and it was based on backpacking. Nobody flew anywhere, all surface stuff, and no hurry. A lot of people do that now, since the 60s especially, but it's small-scale and not very "serious" because they're cheapos, not something the industry can climb aboard. I did it, at the end of the sixties, if for different reasons (I got arrested and had to flee), very important part of my life, and actually I never really stopped after that. When I fled I flew, I was definitely in a hurry, but not after that, trains and boats and buses, and boots, and thumb. Travelling, yeah. Flying? Naah. I only do it now if I don't have a choice. There's not nearly enough choice. Best wishes Keith >Brian > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Lyle, > > > > What I am saying is that it is socially irresponsible to promote > > biofuels without at least an equal effort to promote a SIGNIFICANT > > reduction in consumption on the order of 1/5th the current amount, > > BY ALL OF US. > > > > For example, Jet Air Travel. I am amazed at the number of so- >called > > environmentalists that refuse to give up this particular bad >habit. > > Here we have an industry subsidized with over 18 times the amount > > allowed for super efficient train travel. > > > > Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: > > > > SUV: 4,591 > > Air: 4,123 > > Bus: 3,729 > > Car: 3,672 > > Train: 2,138 > > > > Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics > > http://199.79.179.77/publications/nts/index.html > > > > Another example, folks insist on racing from red light to red >light > > as fast as possible, and when on highways and freeways routinely > > speed 20 to 30 mph above posted speed limits. The cops have given >up > > trying to enforce speed limits (a whole other rant) so the race is > > on. Now everyone knows the faster one goes the more fuel is > > consumed, yet bring up the idea of restoring the 55 MPH speed >limit, > > and enforcing existing speed limits, and watch the so-called > > environmentalists scurry for cover like roaches when the lights >come > > on. > > > > This one simple measure could reduce consumption, emmissions & > > reliance on imported oil 20% to 50%! Visit the Drive 55 >Conservation > > website to read several reports and articles in support of this > > claim: http://drive55.org/pn/index.php > > > > > > So, all that said, and seeing as you "fundamentally agree" with > > my "conservation message" - what commitments are you prepared to > > make to reduce your personal consumption of energy? > > > > I refuse to fly in jet airplanes now. I plan better and stick to > > surface transportation. > > > > When I drive my 78 300D, I obey speed limits, rarely exceeding 55 > > MPH. By staying in the right lane I have found this very easy as > > that is the maximum for trucks here in California. Guess what, > > McDonalds BRAGS about sticking to 55 MPH with stickers on their > > trucks! > > > > I have replaced every light bulb in my home with 13 watt > > flourescents and installed dual pane windows among the ongoing > > efforts. > > > > I ride my bike whenever possible for most trips to the store, >bank, > > and other errands. I even take it on the light rail when I go > > downtown. > > > > When I shop I pay close attention to the source of the products I > > buy, and always choose locally produced goods if possible. > > > > I share this message with everyone I meet, along with the > > information I have about cellulosic ethanol, biodiesel, and other > > types of biofuel as a PART of the equation. > > > > I will say this very plainly again now: It is socially >irresponsible > > to promote biofuels without AT LEAST an equal effort made to >promote > > conservation. The offense is compounded when someone claiming > > concern for the environment refuses to acknowledge this in their >own > > life, and joins in the funding of petroleum warlords. > > > > Peace, > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Lyle Estill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Tim, > > > > > > I fundamentally agree with your conservation message, and your > > mantra > > > of social responsibility and sustainability, > > > but I think questioning feedstock capacities at this point is a > > straw > > > argument. > > > > > > Saying we can't grow enough to meet our fuel needs is a little > > like > > > saying we shouldn't make electricity from wind--after all, the > > wind > > > doesn't always blow. > > > > > > Lyle Estill > > > V.P., Stuff > > > Piedmont Biofuels > > > www.biofuels.coop ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
