Keith, I understand your frustration. Not on the biofuels beat, but I am getting more e-mail than I can keep up with on the subject of Electric Vehicles (yup, gas prices have jumped again), and the hydrogen economy (yup, there are elections coming this year in Canada and the U.S. - newsflash - Canada's has just been called for June 28) and some other topics on which I am known to hold forth. Hopefully my current wave of frustration will diminish. However, it is taking me longer and longer to respond to the incessant arrival of e-mails, looking for nothing more than I have already put in the public domain on my website.
It certainly helped some to get outside today and make a serious start on planting the garden. The transplanted plants look to have taken well. Today and tomorrow are for things being started from seed. Been driven in now by darkness, rain and mosquitoes. Now, back to responding to e-mail. Next one is a fellow who thinks that GMO- enhanced ethanol production to be reformed to produce hydrogen is the silver bullet to all our energy concerns. On the positive side, Bill Kemp e-mailed me yesterday to tell me his book, "The Renewable Energy Handbook for Homeowners" has now made the Canadian non-fiction Bestsellers list - unheard of for a "niche" market subject like this. Hmmm, maybe I should write a book - "The Hydrogen Economy for Dummies". Then instead of providing the same answers over and over again for free, I could just sell them a copy. Much more authoritative that way. But then, who would want to read about the reality? Its the delusion that provides all the fun. It speaks poorly for the reality we have created that we (as a society) always seem so eager to escape it. Biofuels will definitely figure in the final chapter - Solutions That Actually Make Sense. Keith, spend your time on what you think is important. None of us are obligated to give our time where we feel it is poorly spent. I can only hope this list remains on the positive side of your personal ledger - I know I have benefitted greatly from the contributions of many here, and immodestly hope that others have found some of my contributions to be of value as well. Darryl McMahon Keith wrote: > I wonder why you're being so defensive? "Insulting"? Well, if you > insist on being insulted I guess there's no help for it. But believe > me, Noam, if I'd set out to insult you I wouldn't have left it in any > doubt whatsoever. As it is, I doubt anyone can see any insults other > than you. > > >This was certainly not my first attempt. I have made many test > >batches, and we made test batches in my class the previous week. And > >yes this was our first attempt making a 5 gallon batch. When I > >mixed the methoxide before we did it in blenders, before adding our > >oil. Yes, we used grease from restaurants- used oil. I personally > >don't consider virgin oil to be "grease". > > There are people here from more than a hundred countries, and I > believe your country is the only one, or at least one of the very > few, where they refer to oil as "grease". If you're going to take > offence if someone asks for clarity to help answer your questions > then you mustn't expect much further patience from them, or from > anybody. Your first message did not specify what oil you used. It > didn't specify much at all. > > >The problem I was having was how to mix larger quantities of > >methoxide. Not all of us can have a completely closed system > >immediately. > > Any of us can very easily acquire an HDPE carboy. > > >We can do our best with what we have and what we can afford. That > >doesn't make us any less important. > > If me and the other list member who responded to you considered it > unimportant we probably wouldn't have bothered, no? > > >It seems to me that this community could use a bit more respect of > >those that have less experience. > > I'll tell you something. With our VERY demanding project, Journey to > Forever, we have only a marginal interest in whether one more or less > American or citizen of any other industrialised country makes > biodiesel or not. We also have little interest in whether or not such > folks join the Biofuel list, stay and prosper, or leave in high > dudgeon, or whether they visit our website or not, we already get far > more visits than we can easily handle. Our focus is on sustainable > fuel and energy for 3rd World rural communities, and even then only > as a part of an overall Appropriate Technology approach. What happens > in the industrialised countries is of little interest to us. > > Yet I spend an inordinate amount of time that I DON'T have to spare > helping industrial-nation newbies learn how to make high-quality fuel > reliably. Including you. I don't need to be told to have more > respect. > > Others here are in a similar situation. They spend a lot of time that > they also don't have to spare helping newcomers to learn. They also > don't need to be told to have more respect. You do though. > > >I have read Tickell and read much on Journey to forever. When > >someone has a question it honestly doesn't help much to refer me to > >websites- I have seen this already. > > If you'd already seen the links I referred you to you wouldn't have > asked the questions you did and saying you'd used a plastic bucket > and a paddle. It's obvious you didn't bother to refer to the links, > and still haven't. That's not insulting? But I didn't get insulted, > just referred you to them again. Why don't you climb down off your > high horse and check them out? > > >I checked the very same sites before posting my question (i wouldn't > >waste bandwidth). > > But to no avail it seems. It's right there in the index, how come you > didn't see it? > > >It was something I hadn't seen before, either personally, on the > >list, or on the web. I don't think responding with condescension to > >those who are less experienced really helps any of us. > > What nonsense! > > >I was hoping that the list could be a source for those of us who > >have only been doing this a few months to trouble shoot. What I got > >was a bit insulting, with all due respect. i haven't really had any > >of my questions answered. > > Yes you have, but... > > >How is that helpful? > > ... you can lead a horse to the water, and that's all you can do. > > Not too difficult to see what's going on here. I think you have to > choose. I think you already have. Pity, that. > > Helping newbies? I don't need much encouragement to chuck it in and > get on with too many other pressing things that are much more > important to us. I think you may just have provided that > encouragement. What the hell, we've been running this list for four > years now, helped build up a huge treasure-house of an archives where > people can find everything they need to know if they're but prepared > to look, we've spent vast numbers of hours providing and maintaining > the resources at our website (and doing the work itself!) which > constant feedback tells us is more than enough to learn to make > biodiesel... And we didn't have any of this, nor any help from > anyone, all we had was 13 paragraphs we found on the Web. A lot of us > here can say the same. Sod it, enough already. Do it yourself! > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/ > Biofuel list owner > > > >Noam > > > >______ > >Hello Noam > > > > >Keith, > > > > > >We did NOT end up with biodiesel. The consistancy is close to that > > >of the original grease. I am unsure now what to do with the stuff. I > > >think I didn't mix the lye/methanol enough and something reacted > > >with the animal fat. > > > >What animal fat? Was this virgin oil or used oil? You say "grease", > >but I'm never quite sure what Americans mean when they say "grease". > >I'd assumed it was virgin oil, because it sounded like your first > >attempt. You did say you'd never seen the "weird gummy stuff" before, > >but it also seemed like you'd never mixed methoxide before. Though 5 > >gal is a bit much for a first attempt, 5 litres or even 1 would be > >better. If not virgin oil, how did you determine how much lye to use? > >Did you titrate the oil? > > > >Now I understand what you meant - I'd thought the gummy stuff > >appeared in the methoxide, which would have been a mystery, but it > >appeared after you added it to the oil. Yes, as Todd said, soap. > > > >What sort of processor did you use? > >How did you stir it? > >What temperature was it? > >How long did you agitate it for? > >How much methanol did you use? > >How much lye? > > > > >I don't know. > > > >Reprocess the failed batch as if it were new oil. See: > > > >Biodiesel from new oil > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew > > > >Mix the methoxide as Todd suggests in his reply to you, as in the > >links I gave you previously: > > > >Methoxide the easy way > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth > > > >More here: > > > >Mixing the methoxide > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix > > > >And more here: > > > >Adding the methoxide > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd > > > >If reprocessing doesn't work then you have heavily used WVO (used > >oil) with a high Free Fatty Acid level and you'll either have to > >learn how to titrate it for an accurate lye quantity, or, better for > >newcomers, abandon it and get better oil - and STILL learn how to > >titrate it for accurate lye quantities. > > > >You can find out all about that and much more at the link I gave you > >previously: > > > >Make your own biodiesel > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html > > > >Check the links Noam. > > > > >I did the same experiment with my 6th period class and it seemed > > >turn out alright. I mixed methoxide in a plastic bucket with a mixer > > >and by hand. > > > >Use a closed container, see the links above and Todd's message. > > > > >I was scared of static electricity making a spark though and > > >igniting the whole thing. Is this a danger? Is the methanol less > > >volatile once you add the lye? > > > >Nope. Do it the Easy way. > > > > >thanks, > > > > > >Noam Gundle > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > >>Hello, > > >> > > >>I made a 5 gallon batch today, and had a few problems. I tried to > > >>mix the methanol/lye in blenders, and it didn't work. The seals of > > >>the blenders must be shot, because the methanol leaked out. So we > > >>mixed the methoxide by hand in a large beaker (all done in my fume > > >>hood). > > >> > > >>I added the lye in two batches, with half the methanol/lye in each. > > >>When I went to add the second batch, there was this weird gummy > > >>stuff floating on top. It looked like tofu curds, or congealed > > >>something. It was creamy brown and broke apart when I poked it. I > > >>hesitated to remove it because i worried about upsetting the > > >>balance of lye. I did take out one small piece to try to identify > > >>it. > > >> > > >>I have NEVER seen this before. Has anyone else? Any advice? > > >> > > >>Also, when I blended the methanol/lye, the container got very hot. > > >>I immediately stopped it because I was worried about explosions. It > > >>got hot when I mixed it by hand too. Is this normal? > > >> > > >>I would appreciate any help anyone feels like offering. > > >> > > >>thanks, > > >> > > >>Noam Gundle > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Hello Noam > > > > > >It does get hot, an exothermic reaction. Methoxide can be very > > >unkind to blender seals. Best to keep the blender for test batch > > >processing, mix the methoxide separately in an HDPE carboy or > > >something similar. > > > > > >Here's the best way to mix it: > > > > > >Methoxide the easy way > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth > > > > > >More here: > > > > > >Mixing the methoxide > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix > > > > > >And more here: > > > > > >Adding the methoxide > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd > > >Simple 5-gallon processor: Journey to Forever > > > > > >See also: > > > > > >Make your own biodiesel > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html > > > > > >I don't know what the gummy stuff might have been. > > > > > >Anyway, did you end up with biodiesel? > > > > > >Best > > > > > >Keith > -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
