Hallo Phil, Tuesday, 28 September, 2004, 20:03:21, you wrote:
PVC> As long as the Palestinians only kill Israeli children & grandmothers, let's PVC> sell them the bombs. If the PLO murders any Americans, I'd vote to *give* PVC> the bombs to the IAF. PVC> Pay attention to the news. Israeli forces kill military leaders. Then the PVC> PLO gets mad & bombs another bus load of children & civilians. I guess some PVC> people think that is fair. PVC> BTW, anyone notice the reduction of murder bombings since Saddam H. has PVC> stopped paying bounties to the bombers? PVC> Suicide had nothing to do with it. These were / are murders for hire. Pay closer attention to the news and remember what you read and hear and use more than one (US) source. Israel has, in fact, been taking out the Palestinian ultra violent types but in a quieter mode they have also been killing off the moderates and peace types which leads to leaving only the violent radicals. That gives them the leeway to say, "The Palestinians won't talk, you can't trust them." Back in the eighties the Israeli's closed the Friends School in Ramallah. The Friends School taught peace and they did not proselytize. Friends are the original peace church in the US. We do not teach war, strife, hate or anything else suchlike. Israel doesn't need bombs. They have stolen through espionage our nuclear weapons plans and now have them. They are untrustworthy even by their allies. They have attacked the USS Liberty unprovoked and knowing it was an unarmed US vessel because they were afraid the Liberty would make the massacre (in the 7 day war) known to the world. The Israeli government is a renegade government and answers to none, particularly to the US. Hakan is absolutely wrong when he calls the US government the "masters" of Israel. Back to the beginning. Killing off the moderates and most effective/virulent/radical of the violent extremists leave those radicals who are proficient at killing but not really very good at their job. It gives the Israeli's the chance to say, "See what they are like." when they have created the situation in the first place. The common Israeli citizen is slowly waking up to the fact that their government is out of control. Now brother, if we (the US) were to withdraw all support to Israel, monetary and military (including hardware), you would see that the Israeli's would either get reasonable or start nuking their neighbors. As it stands they have absolutely no incentive to be reasonable. If the US had any semblance of morality they would go into Israel and forcibly remove the nukes they have made using out stolen technology. There is no doubt that Israel has WMD and would use them. You might want to think about what causes a person to strap a bomb on themselves and go blow other people up. Do you understand how hopeless a person would have to feel to do that? You may also want to rethink arming anyone. We need less weapons not more. Fewer weapons and a boatload more compassion and understanding. Hate and violence and domination only produce more of the same and it just continues to escalate. Perhaps you could go live with the Palestinians for a couple of weeks and then come back and give a report on what a bunch of worthless and violent swine they are. Or perhaps you could come back with a bit more understanding of their situation. One thing I learned in the military was when doing traffic analysis one must look at the data with an unjaundiced and unprejudiced eye. If ones own predilections and point of view cannot be put behind one and the data viewed with fresh, unprejudiced eyes then it will not be correctly interpreted and understood. It works the same way in life. Unless one can see past what appears to be and past ones own position and look at all sides equally unprejudiced then the data and resultant conclusions will be skewed and incorrect. The most important and recent example of this is having good intel analysis run through Feith's office and strained politically before being given to the president. Perfectly good intel was ignored, distorted, misused and misrepresented for political ends to justify a wrong and evil act strictly for political purposes. Then the intelligence community is blamed. What a crock. The world is not so simple as to be divided into "we're good" and "They're bad". Governments can be pretty accurately characterized as "we're bad" and "they're bad". The majority of their work is not done in the light of day for all to see. They use "secret" and "national security" to cover a lot of evil. And when they send their young men off to fight and die those youngsters are in a double bind because they have to dehumanize the enemy and they themselves become dehumanized. In Viet Nam we didn't kill Vietnamese. We killed "dinks" and "slopes" and "zips". In Iraq and Afghanistan they aren't killing Iraqis and Afghanis they are killing "ragheads". And those on the opposing side do the same thing. They aren't killing Americans they are killing "imperialist dogs" or whatever. We paint the world in black and white and ignore the majority which is gray because it is easier to do the evil people do that way. Convenient and simple. Things start to get messy when we think of the "enemy" as something less than human. We're far too busy to examine the psychology and geopolitics of things. Besides, our government wouldn't do anything which wasn't right...right? Brother, if we really were serious about ending this crap in the middle east we would be bombing Israel and Saudi Arabia. But we're not. (I say this using the logic of the world btw and do not believe that we should be bombing anyone.) That is because we are not interested in ending this crap but rather are interested in the financial and geopolitical exigencies of the moment and do not look down the road any further than the near future. Bottom line thinking and such thinking is only short term and has absolutely nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of actions. "Can we gain something for ourselves?" is the only question. The only things we worry about the taking or losing of human life are (1) will our losses be such so as to impact our geopolitical and financial gain and (2) will the death toll of the other side adversely impact our image in the press? And we are not really too worried about number 2. When human worth can be just so many ledger entries there is something terribly wrong. Whether it is loss of life on one side or the other. I have 8 years in the military and 2 extended Nam tours under my belt. I have seen this first hand. It is part and parcel of the system. Kids go into the military at 17, 18, 19 years of age and are trained and indoctrinated and by the time you have your first firefight it is all over but the shouting. Between the political indoctrination, military training and the stress of not only combat but the possibility of losing ones life "by accident" (ambush, friendly fire, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever-cooks and office personnel still have to be concerned for their lives in a combat zone) leads ones perceptions and beliefs to change. When the shit hammer falls it isn't a matter of God and the flag it is a matter of protect your ass and kill the enemy. And then you live with that for the rest of your life. Worse yet are the sociopaths who get to liking this stuff. Brother there are two sides to every coin and that doesn't even address the side which travels the circumference of the coin. It would do us well to consider that whether it is us or them, no matter who the us and them are, that all have mothers and fathers, husbands and wifes, children and grandchildren and each and every one of both us and them is worth just as much as the other. We need to reconsider our values and reconsider what is truly important and what is just partisan selfishness and egoism. No simple matter. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli ******** The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" ******** Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. ******** Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin ******** The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
