"Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
08-08-05 on Ethanol
It takes approximately the same energy to produce ethanol, as you
get out of using ethanol. There are quibbles about how much gain or
loss, but the major use of energy, is from the distillation process
to make ethanol usable. The distillation process is the major loss
of energy.
See: http://www.journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html on current
ethanol energy efficiency.
So, what kind of engineering would solve this challenge? One way is
to use the sugar cane residue, like in Brasil, for the energy to
distill the ethanol. Another is to use the residue to make even
more ethanol to distill. Neither of these makes enough of an order
of magnitude increase in energy, but they help. The largest gain I
can see now is to engineer the use of solar energy to evaporate the
ethanol so that the ethanol can be condensed by the cooling
available in the ground.
There is such a design in the Biofuels online library at Journey to
Forever. it's been there for five years.
Using the ground to cool and or derive the cooling to condense is a
low tech and low cost way that over time can become higher tech.
"The spray tower cooler for the condenser water coolant is made of
three cake tins which have been perforated so they cascade water into
the drum. The drum is connected to another by a 50 mm diameter pipe
and the whole thing is driven by a centrifugal pump with a by-pass
valve to adjust flow through the condenser."
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html
Biodiesel processors: The Deepthort 100B - Journey to Forever
(With photograph.)
The same is true of solar designs. Cost effectivity is our driver
for our designs.
My vision is for a World Wide Web Online Project, to design several
alternative solar/ground ethanol distillation designs, through an
open source process.
That's what this list is, Michael, and very successful it's been,
especially in conjuction with the Journey to Forever website biofuels
section.
I'm not sure I agree with you as far as ethanol and energy-in
energy-out is concerned. The stuff about Pimentel etc, whether pro or
con, deals primarily with corn (maize), not the crop of choice, and
with a conceptualised "standard" farm, which is discussed on the page
you reffed above. Even if there is actually such a thing it may not
have much to do with what an integrated appropriate technology
approach can achieve for small-scale localised projects. Pannir has
discussed this quite a lot. If you integrate it the energy-in for
distillation can be free or virtually free. For instance,
heat-exchangers from a thermophilic compost pile will almost get you
there and biogas could do the rest. You need thermophilic composting
with biogas anyway, and both of them use the manure from the
livestock you should be maintaining with seedcake and mash or
whatever. There are many other options.
This is a way for farms to become self sufficient all our our world
and to sell us the excess ethanol for fuel, just like with food.
You mean the US? Why should they sell it to the US?
E-Mail me at address on my card when you are interested in
contributing your design and other talents.
See http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com/Ethanol.htm
Please do NOT do that. This is the place for such discussions, there
is no need to take it offlist. It says this in the List rules, which
you've been referred to and are obliged to read: "Don't call for an
offlist response unless you have a special reason. If it's discussed
on-list, everybody can share in the discussion, more people will
contribute, you'll end up with much better answers, and it will all
be in the archives for future seekers to find there."
The List rules are here:
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Keep it onlist please.
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner
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