Hey I can chime in on this one..... I know a guy who fabricates micro sized atomic mass spectrometers and as I pointed out in the thread about the micro biodiesel reactor there are non linear effects to reducing the size of reaction chambers that are seen in sensitivity in his device that I speculated might come into play with the biodiesel cell as well. His mass spec turns out to be so sensitive that he can estimate the number of amalgam fillings I have in my mouth by sampling the air I exhale and comparing it to the air I inhale and he can easily detect mercury from the amalgams in my exhaled breath!! There is plenty of information on the toxicity and toxic effects of mercury vapour out there. (Actually liquid mercury is not so dangerous, it is the vapour and mercury compounds that are responsible for all the hysteria). Well I don't know if the amount of vapour coming out of silver amalgam at body temperature is enough to cause health effects over long term but the point is there is SOME. Of course there must be a down side to the alternatives also so now the question becomes which is worse? I have also been told that having amalgam drilled out exposes one to more mercury vapour than leaving them alone which might be true. At the time amalgam was initially used it was thought to be very safe, just as the epoxy materials of today are assumed to be, but who knows what is in them and what will be found out down the road?? Pull them out I say, and be done with it. Tequilla and vise grips work well for this. Last I heard there were no ill effects of having a gap in your smile other than a tenfold increase in sexual frustration.....hmm is that worse than death by amalgam....? Joe bob allen wrote: the subject at hand: is there evidence to support the claim that dental amalgams are poisoning people, and have been for a century. I suggested that their is scant evidence to support the claim. I'm not saying that it isn't a reasonable hypothesis. I am being neither quarrelsome nor blind, and I certainly don't intend to obfuscate. If it was my use of literary directives that confuse you, I apologize. Also, I am not trying to dominate an argument, nor hide the truth, but rather find it.I checked your reference and indeed there are numerous peer reviewed works cited. good. I will take them one at a time as to what I can glean from them. I will focus only on those that relate to toxic effects of dental amalgam. A bunch of them address the broader issue of Hg in the environment, or other forms of Hg which as noted have wildly different toxicities. "Dental Mercury Impairs Kidney Function" certainly you want to lead with strong data. This is a good paper, the data used controls and showed that over the short term- 60 days -that there were minor changes in kidney function, which could be explained by the mercury interfering with tubular reabsorption. However, it was also noted that : "Concentrations of K, urea, Y-glutamyl transpeptidase, alkaline phosphatase, and total protein did not change significantly form (sic)0 to 60 days in urine. Plasma levels of Na, K, urea, and albumin remained unchanged form 0 to 60 days after amalgam. Renal histology remained normal in amalgam-treated animals. It is concluded that amalgam Hg levels in kidney are sufficient to significantly reduce the rate of inulin clearance by non defined mechanisms and that electrolyte patterns in urine are consistent with impaired renal tubular reabsorption. Could one extend this result to humans, and over a much longer period of time? I bet the Hg release is greatest after initially installing the amalgam and decreases steadily over time to reach some steady state- is that release significant? the study has it limits. Another important factor is sheep chew a heck of a lot more than people. The bruxation surely causes release of more mercury than would be observed in non-cud chewers. Dental Mercury Provokes an Increase in Oral and Intestinal Floras What this paper says is that low concentrations of Hg result in Hg resistant bacteria in vivo. No surprise there. The authors then go on to say the risk is that antibiotic resistant genes may share the same plasmid as the gene for Hg resistance. Hence stimulation of Hg resistance may increase the transmission of antibiotic resistance in various microflora. It would seem easy enough to examine the microflora of those with and without dental amalgams, and compare levels of antibiotic resistance. more later. irk McLoren wrote:* * *vide. *"Look" or "see." This phrase refers the reader to an earlier statement or definition within the body of the essay. The must common uses are "*vide *63" (which means "see page sixty-three"), *v.s/. vide supra/* ("see earlier" or "look above on this page") and *v.i. /vide infra /*("See below" or "Look below"). Don't confuse v.s. (/vide supra/) with vs. (/versus/). You asked for references amalgam.org has a plethora of published references. Are you blind or just quarrelsome? Obfuscation does not become you. Dominating an argument is obviously more important than the truth to you. How sad especially in light of your position of authority with the youth. Kirk */bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Howdy Kirk, Kirk McLoren wrote: > We find that there is a lot of concern about mercury and burning coal > yet you advocate a mercury source that is much more concentrated as not > a demonstrable health problem. Environmental releases of Hg is not where we started. I agree whole heartedly with you. I have done research on environmental Hg (one of my project favorites- My students and I got to go fishing for sunfish, then we analyzed the flesh for mercury content- but that is another story) let's try to keep to our discussion. My response to you was to two claims you made: " So what do other dentists think that are outside the liability issue if American dentists ever admit they have poisoned people for a century" and "In Germany ,for example, you would lose your license to practice dentistry if you put "silver" fillings in someones mouth (mercury amalgam" all I suggested is that I find no support in the literature for your claims- so give me some proof- if dental amalgams are really poisoning people for so long, then surely their is some epidemiological evidence. As to German Law- any Europeans out there to direct us to relevant legalese? You need to see what is wrong with your > search engine Bob. You only seem to find politically correct authorities > to quote. I used as my source the world health organization, in addition to other national/ international organizations. Could you please direct me to better data sources then, but please no testimonials. Remember we are talking about data that supports your claim that dental amalgam has (Hg) has been poisoning people, not that metallic mercury can be converted in the environment to dimethyl mercury which is several orders of magnitude more toxic. > > Since as in any trial we can find "experts" to vouch for any position I > suggest we use a modicum of logic and ask ourselves if the EPA is full > of fertilizer in labeling amalgam as hazardous waste. different question entirely Are you aware that > the Great lakes mercury control program identifies dental amalgam waste > from drains a major source of toxicity in the lakes? > Since you are a chemist you might like http://www.amalgam.org/ vide supra > > Kirk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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