Hey I can chime in on this one.....

I know a guy who fabricates micro sized atomic mass spectrometers and as I pointed out in the thread about the micro biodiesel reactor there are non linear effects to reducing the size of reaction chambers that are seen in sensitivity in his device that I speculated might come into play with the biodiesel cell as well.  His mass spec turns out to be so sensitive that he can estimate the number of amalgam fillings I have in my mouth by sampling the air I exhale and comparing it to the air I inhale and he can easily detect mercury from the amalgams in my exhaled breath!!  There is plenty of information on the toxicity and toxic effects of mercury vapour out there.  (Actually liquid mercury is not so dangerous, it is the vapour and mercury compounds that are responsible for all the hysteria). Well I don't know if the amount of vapour coming out of silver amalgam at body temperature is enough to cause health effects over long term but the point is there is SOME.  Of course there must be a down side to the alternatives also so now the question becomes which is worse?  I have also been told that having amalgam drilled out exposes one to more mercury vapour than leaving them alone which might be true.  At the time amalgam was initially used it was thought to be very safe, just as the epoxy materials of today are assumed to be, but who knows what is in them and what will be found out down the road??  Pull them out I say, and be done with it.  Tequilla and vise grips work well for this. Last I heard there were no ill effects of having a gap in your smile other than a tenfold increase in sexual frustration.....hmm is that worse than death by amalgam....?

Joe

bob allen wrote:
the subject at hand:  is there evidence to support the claim that dental 
amalgams are poisoning people, and have been for a century. I suggested 
that their is scant evidence to support the claim. I'm not saying that 
it isn't a reasonable hypothesis.   I am being neither quarrelsome nor 
blind, and I certainly don't intend to obfuscate.  If it was my use of 
literary directives that confuse you, I apologize. Also, I am not trying 
to dominate an argument, nor hide the truth, but rather find it.

I checked your reference and indeed there are numerous peer reviewed 
works cited.  good.  I will take them one at a time as to what I can 
glean from them. I will focus only on those that relate to toxic effects 
of dental amalgam.  A bunch of them address the broader issue of Hg in 
the environment, or other forms of Hg which as noted have wildly 
different toxicities.


"Dental Mercury Impairs Kidney Function"

certainly you want to lead with strong data.  This is a good paper, the 
data used controls and showed that over the short term- 60 days -that 
there were minor changes in kidney function, which could be explained by 
   the mercury interfering with tubular reabsorption.

However, it was also noted that :  "Concentrations of K, urea, 
Y-glutamyl transpeptidase, alkaline phosphatase, and total protein did 
not change significantly form (sic)0 to 60 days in urine. Plasma levels 
of Na, K, urea, and albumin remained unchanged form 0 to 60 days after 
amalgam. Renal histology remained normal in amalgam-treated animals. It 
is concluded that amalgam Hg levels in kidney are sufficient to 
significantly reduce the rate of inulin clearance by non defined 
mechanisms and that electrolyte patterns in urine are consistent with 
impaired renal tubular reabsorption.

Could one extend this result to humans, and over a much longer period of 
time?  I bet the Hg release is greatest after initially installing the 
amalgam and decreases steadily over time to reach some steady state-  is 
that release significant?  the study has it limits.  Another important 
factor is sheep chew a heck of a lot more than people.  The bruxation 
surely causes release of more mercury than would be observed in non-cud 
chewers.



  Dental Mercury Provokes an Increase in Oral and Intestinal Floras

What this paper says is that low concentrations of Hg result in Hg 
resistant bacteria in vivo.  No surprise there. The authors then go on 
to say the risk is that antibiotic resistant genes may share the same 
plasmid as the gene for Hg resistance.  Hence stimulation of Hg 
resistance may increase the transmission of antibiotic resistance in 
various microflora.

It would seem easy enough to examine the microflora of those with and 
without dental amalgams, and compare levels of antibiotic resistance.

more later.














irk McLoren wrote:
  
* *
*vide. *"Look" or "see." This phrase refers the reader to an earlier 
statement or definition within the body of
the essay. The must common uses are "*vide *63" (which means "see page 
sixty-three"), *v.s/. vide supra/*
("see earlier" or "look above on this page") and *v.i. /vide infra 
/*("See below" or "Look below"). Don't
confuse v.s. (/vide supra/) with vs. (/versus/).
 
 
You asked for references
amalgam.org has a plethora of published references.
Are you blind or just quarrelsome? Obfuscation does not become you.
Dominating an argument is obviously more important than the truth to you.
How sad especially in light of your position of authority with the youth.
 
Kirk
 

*/bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

    Howdy Kirk,

    Kirk McLoren wrote:
     > We find that there is a lot of concern about mercury and burning
    coal
     > yet you advocate a mercury source that is much more concentrated
    as not
     > a demonstrable health problem.

    Environmental releases of Hg is not where we started. I agree whole
    heartedly with you. I have done research on environmental Hg (one of my
    project favorites- My students and I got to go fishing for sunfish,
    then
    we analyzed the flesh for mercury content- but that is another story)

    let's try to keep to our discussion. My response to you was to two
    claims you made:

    " So what do other dentists think that are outside the liability issue
    if American dentists ever admit they have poisoned people for a century"

    and

    "In Germany ,for example, you would lose your license to practice
    dentistry if you put "silver" fillings in someones mouth (mercury
    amalgam"


    all I suggested is that I find no support in the literature for your
    claims- so give me some proof- if dental amalgams are really poisoning
    people for so long, then surely their is some epidemiological evidence.
    As to German Law- any Europeans out there to direct us to relevant
    legalese?




    You need to see what is wrong with your
     > search engine Bob. You only seem to find politically correct
    authorities
     > to quote.

    I used as my source the world health organization, in addition to other
    national/ international organizations.

    Could you please direct me to better data sources then, but please no
    testimonials. Remember we are talking about data that supports your
    claim that dental amalgam has (Hg) has been poisoning people, not that
    metallic mercury can be converted in the environment to dimethyl
    mercury
    which is several orders of magnitude more toxic.



     >
     > Since as in any trial we can find "experts" to vouch for any
    position I
     > suggest we use a modicum of logic and ask ourselves if the EPA is
    full
     > of fertilizer in labeling amalgam as hazardous waste.

    different question entirely


    Are you aware that
     > the Great lakes mercury control program identifies dental amalgam
    waste
     > from drains a major source of toxicity in the lakes?
     > Since you are a chemist you might like http://www.amalgam.org/

    vide supra
     >
     > Kirk

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