Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

Fred Oliff Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:03:10 -0800

Joe,

The evening news last night reported an earthquake in Sudbury. In the Canadian Shield no less, thought to be one of the most geologically stable of "formations", the craton itself, though the Ottawa Valley, just downstream, is an old fault line with lots of seismic activity. While we are on the subject, and this has nothing to do with weather but more to do with whether, did you know that both Pickering and Darlington nuclear plants are located above very deep, very old faults? Apparently they are very good sources of the kind of cold water necessary for the cooling of the nuclear reactors. Just another one of those things that makes you say "HMMMM".

Fred

From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:13:39 -0500

Nice take on the issue Tom;

I also like to look at it from a larger perspective. Consider the earth from a systems approach. A ball floating in a vacuum being irradiated from one position in space, radiating heat energy into the cold sink of space on the opposite side. The earth has been cooling from a much hotter state billions of years ago. At some point the temperature stabilized around a point where incoming radiation balances the loss of energy from the dark side into space. Greeenhouse gasses reduce the radiative losses. Other atmospheric polutants with high albido values can reduce the incomming flux also ( sufuric acid droplets in the stratosphere for instance) and the balance can be shifted. But what I wonder about is the balance beneath the earth's surface. I haven't heard anyone talking about this but there is a balance there too obviously with energy adsorbed into the earth itself and radiated away. If this balance is tipped in the warming direction ( which it seems to be) then doesn't it stand to reason that the temperature of the earth itself, not just the atmosphere and oceans will begin to rise? Will this result in increased seismic and volcanic activity? I think volcanic ejecta are one of the major negative feedback modes which limit and eventually reverse global warming trends, by drastically limiting influx of heat. Could we be headed for not only severe weather but also severe seizmic activity such as eruptions, quakes and the resulting tsunamis and eventual ice age as well? Sound a little apocalyptic anyone? The four horsemen ( Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz) have been abroad spreading their evils....lol. I'm no religious fanatic but it is a thought....
Ha, now what am I gonna say when they come knocking on my door on Sunday hmmm?

Joe

Thomas Kelly wrote:

Mike,

      CO2 levels are on the rise .....   nowhere near 250% since 2000.

In the year 2000, CO2 levels were at 368ppm (vol) = .0368% of air by volume. As of March, 2006 the CO2 levels were 381ppm = .0381% of the air by volume ..... a 3.53% increase.

      If temp change caused by CO2, alone, was all we had to be concerned with, climate change associated with it would not be very significant. The problem is the cascading effect that even a slight temp change can initiate.

     Ex. Slight increase in temp -----> less ice cover   -----> less reflected solar energy, more absorbed   ----> more heat ---> less ice cover    etc

            Slight increase in temp ---> melting of permafrost ----> release of methane gas contributing to greenhouse effect ---->  temp increase ----->

melting of permafrost   etc.

     The current 381ppm level represents a 100ppm increase over pre-industrial levels ....   a 36% increase .....  Very significant. Recent studies done involving the analysis of air trapped in tiny bubbles in Arctic Ice, show that changes such as these have occurred in the past, but over a much greater (as in 10's of thousands of years) rather than a few lifetimes.



     There are homeostatic mechanism that allow the earth to maintain relatively stable conditions. Large bodies of water absorb CO2. Homeostatic mechanisms can be overloaded. Because CO2 reacts with the water to form carbonic acid (dissociates into bicarbonate ion and hydrogen ion), over-loading the oceans with CO2 can result in a slight drop in pH. (A similar series of events occurs in our bodies. We transport CO2 ... as the bicarbonate ion .... away from tissues. Increased metabolic rate ----> additional CO2 ------> Increased carbonic acid and a very slight drop in pH of our blood. We feel the urge to breath faster ......  result: we eliminate the CO2. Unfortunately our large bodies of water do not enjoy such a luxury.) A slight drop in the pH of oceans ----> breakdown and release of vast quantities CO2 sequestered in carbonates (shells of animal great and small).

     At what point does the cascade of events leading to "meltdown" occur?

..... the "Tipping Point"? Has it already occurred?

     Do we just sit and do nothing?

     I wish I paid more attention in English class ... Was it Dylan Thomas? ... "Do not go silent ........."

     Maybe all we can do is mitigate the devastation; fight the good fight .... Are you in?

        Fatheads Unite .....

                                                  Tom

----- Original Message -----

From: M&K DuPree

To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

Terry...any chance you could direct us to where you read this? Last night I was thinking about global warming and the reasons behind it and I wondered if everything might start suffocating at some point. Now today comes your mentioning the CO2 increase. I don't like these kind of coincidences, but they happen. On the other hand, maybe I really shouldn't read the documentation of this number. Maybe I shouldn't read anything about anything that seems to really matter. "Ignorance is bliss," my wife reminds me, not because she believes it, but because she doesn't understand why I should try to learn what I can about something over which I have little or no control. Maybe she's right, but I'm a fathead and want to know anyway. Thanks. Mike DuPree

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dyck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

> Hi Jason,
>
> A new report states that CO2 has increased by 250% since the year 2000.
> That could explain the weird weather.
>
> Terry Dyck
>
>
>>From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
>>Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:22:07 -0600
>>
>>i have a theory about how all of this climate change is going to proceed.
>>all the gases and toxins that are being shoved into the atmosphere will
>>hold heat and all this fantastic energy will hyperactivate the weather, the
>>rain will pull particulates and volatiles out of the air in the
>>rainshadows. the droughts will clear the landscape in certain key
>>equatorial areas which will be prime ground for containment, and over
>>hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, the water cycle will carry the toxins
>>to the sun blasted equator where they will be deposited as salts and other
>>contaminated solids and be truly sequestered (or become rancid festering
>>swamps where no creature would dare go). granted during this time, humanity
>>and most of the weaker species on earth will be killed off... but hey, what
>>can i say?
>>Jason
>>ICQ#: 154998177
>>MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: robert and benita rabello
>>   To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>   Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:11 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
>>
>>
>>   JAMES PHELPS wrote:
>>
>>     This year was hotter than the records set in 1930 in Wyoming ND SD NE
>>and it was a tie in Montana.
>>
>>     A caveat when discussing weather in relation to Global warming. I
>>often hear people say so much for global warming on days like this in
>>Montana ( -40 F wind chills +10 deg F still) but they really don't
>>understand that this is nothing - Montana has not had a "normal winter" for
>>well over 6 years.
>>
>>       My point in using these extreme examples, is that climate change
>>results in weather patterns that fall outside of "norms." In simple terms,
>>the earth acts like a giant heat engine. All of the energy that's getting
>>trapped in the atmosphere gets expressed in the form of stronger high
>>pressures (warm air) and lower low pressures (cold air). The warmth in the
>>oceans is transpiring into the atmosphere as vapor and condensing as either
>>rain or snow, depending on the air temperature. We've had an enormous
>>amount of precipitation recently, which means that somewhere on earth, LESS
>>rain and snow is falling.
>>
>>       Drought and deluge are part of the shifting climate, as is the
>>increasing severity of the storms we're seeing.
>>
>>
>>robert luis rabello
>>"The Edge of Justice"
>>Adventure for Your Mind
>>http://www.newadventure.ca
>>
>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

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