I haven't picked up the tank - so have nothing invested in aluminum. Can you post a design of your processor? It sounds pretty cool. I am now on to my 4th processor and would like to try something new - all have been modified versions of the old tried and true.
I have concluded that the clear tank is a 67 gallon acrylic tank - any thoughts on Acrylic? -Mike Thomas Kelly wrote: > Jim, > Wow!!! > Interesting idea ..... the processor design. > Please keep us posted. > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JAMES PHELPS <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > *Sent:* Monday, January 15, 2007 12:21 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Back to the topic...New BD stuff > > No not intended as such Tom and I was just expressing definitely > not wanting to be confrontational, all due respect. > The best way to tell is take some methoxil and put it in the > aluminum tank. If the aluminum is a higher alloy my bets are > Nada because of the experience I have had with it. When buffered > in oil as it would be then even less. Just try it. Low alloy or > pure aluminums may exhibit widely different results. my guess is > the tank is high alloy just by the fact it is in that form. > Ok that’s all I have to say about that. I am glad others disagree > with me, it allows the subject to be explored well and we all learn. > Now on the matter of the parts, I feel that that environment is > probably higher pressure, oxygen free, and also erosive dirt) so > any coating could be eroded, then the chemicals (under pressure) > can get an inroad to corrosion. This is not comparing apples with > apples however. > Any way, I am not advocating this is a good thing to go purchase. > I do think that Mike can probably make bio till the cows come home > in his tank and > when it Kaputs it Kaputs and for free big deal. Then he can go out > and spend 200 on my version that will never ever need replacing. > The cool part is he is doing the earth a favor by re-using materials. > Consider; > Ok now on to my new processor; I am not going to go into great > detail here but consider each 100 foot coil of PE pipe holds 70 > liters (From memory) of fluid and a 100 foot roll is pretty small. > Consider 4 of these rolls tied together with one inlet and one > outlet. (280 Liters). ~$100 US > Now add a clear water pump with a suction that is tied to a tee so > oil can be introduced to the system until full then valved to go > into recycle. on the discharge 4 - 3/4" venturis that then > manifold together to the suction of another pump but this time a > diaphragm pump 3/4" then into the coil. > Now on the outlet of the coil we have a plastic cone bottomed tank > (130 liters - that’s a total of 420 L of total fluid) with a stem > pipe that allows the discharged oil to Cyclone around the stem > pipe. At the bottom is a drain and the other end of the stem pipe > goes to the tee where it can recycle. > Ok now oil is heated and immersion heater maintains when in > system. Then when the desired amount is in and there is about 6" > over the stem pipe the system is placed into recycle. Now that > this is going on (and of course you have left room for the > methoxil) you introduce the methoxil through the venturi suctions > at a slow and metered pace. The idea is to run out when the first > you put in is hitting the venturis for the second time but no > worry if it is to fast or slow -this is forgiving. > After the methoxil is entered hook the venturi lines to suck > product back in or just shut the valve so they don’t suck air. > Start watching the glyceryn fall out and start draining it off as > soon as it does. Most is gone in the first hour. Now run the pumps > for another 2 hours and test using the methanol test to see if you > have made a complete conversion add more methoxil if you have not > ( you can calculate that by how much oil dropped to the bottom) If > it’s a bright clear phase with no settling dump it to the wash > tank and let sit over night, drain any residual glycerin and wash. > Ok the venturis create the cavitations under pressure just like > the ultrasonic transducer does but at a much lower cost. > Now I have made only one small batch this way > I am still experimenting but the batch finished perfect and really > fast! > No I am not advocating this is better or worse but I have high > hopes for it and based on my first results I think it will help > speed things up. > I will do a full report when all my data is fully baked on this > method but that will be later this year. > My best, > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Thomas Kelly <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:49 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Back to the topic...New BD stuff > > Hi Jim, > Please don't take this as a cross-examination. I have no > experience w. > aluminum tanks. My questions are based purely on curiosity. > > Are aluminum tanks lined with something to give them chemical > resistance? My methanol tanks are lined with something. Many > water heater > tanks are glass-lined. > > If the resistance is due simply to an aluminum oxide coating > formed by > exposure to oxygen, shouldn't all aluminum parts be resistant > to alkaline > conditions? > I've read that aluminum engine parts don't like unwashed BD > because of > the high pH. I've been told that pitted aluminum swimming pool > ladders are a > sign of pH "imbalance" in the water. > > I'm concerned that if someone used soy oil (high Iodine > rating), then > bubble-washes (oxidation), and also had a catalyst present > they could end up > with the heartbreak of polymerized fuel. > > You wrote: > "I have evolved from the idea of the tank processor to a > completly new > design that is cheaper, safer, and faster so I really don't > care for the > tank style due to the inferior mixing that CAN take place." > > I'm very curious. Are you gonna fill us in on the design???? > > Best to you, > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>> > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the topic...New BD stuff > > > > If the inside were truly aluminum, but it is not - it is > compound of > > aluminum coating the structure of aluminum, that is Very > stable. There is > > one, for sure,mbey more, element(s) that can wipe this away, > it is > > mercury. > > The oxide layer is good as plastic until it meets mercury. > > > > I know testimonials are not worth the salt, but I know of > one test of > > biodiesel being placed in this very envionment, heated, > stored for over a > > year and never showing signs of polymerization or any thing > else. The > > owner > > also has made and used the fuel from an aluminum processor > for over two > > years without any signs of ill effect. > > > > So for what it is worth, thats what I know. I have evolved > from the idea > > of > > the tank processor to a completly new design that is > cheaper, safer, and > > faster so I really don't care for the tank style due to the > inferior > > mixing > > that CAN take place. > > > > I wish you the very best of luck however in your ventures. > > > > Jim > > > > > >>From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>> > >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to the topic...New BD stuff > >>Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:19:19 -0500 > >> > >>Mike, > >> A transparent settling tank would be a thing of beauty. Imagine > >>subtle > >>illumination from the back .... turn it into a BD lava lamp > >> > >> I think I would test it before filling it. > >> > >> I have no experience with BD and lucite, but if there is > material > >>incompatibility it may take the nasty form of the BD acting > as a solvent. > >>That would be bad. I have had BD cause gaskets to enlarge > and turn > >>loppy ----> leaks. I have also had BD dissolve rubber (neck > of gas filler > >>on my car ... very messy). IF the lucite dissolved it might > be very bad > >>for your fuel. > >> Is the lucite tank one piece or is it circular w a bottom > sealed to > >>it? > >> > >> > >> As for an aluminum processor ...... > >> > >>You wrote: > >>"However, BD is fine in aluminum tanks." > >> > >> >From Joe Street (Oct 6, 2006) > >> "While looking for info on IR spectra, I found this > excellent paper; > >> > > >>http://nationalbiodieselboard.com/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19970612_gen-234.pdf#search=%22biodiesel%20methyl%20ester%20wavenumber%22 > >> > >>Which talks about issues surrounding fuel contamination and > deposits. > >>An earlier thread had comments from Tom Kelly regarding > copper ions > >>causing polymerization. According to this paper other metals > such as > >>aluminum and iron can catalyze polymerization when biodiesel > is stored." > >> > >> While BD may not cause any apparent damage to aluminum > tanks, the > >>aluminum may be damaging to the fuel. I believe that harsh > alkaline > >>conditions in a processor will release aluminum into your > fuel and also > >>corrode the tank. > >> Tom > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>> > >>Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:27 PM > >>Subject: [Biofuel] Back to the topic...New BD stuff > >> > >> > >> >I have managed to score a 50 - 60 gallon aluminum tank > with fittings - > >> > perfect for a processor. > >> > I also have a 67 gallon (looks like lucite) circular fish > tank. > >> > > >> > I know MOX does not like aluminum, and have heard BD does > not like > >> > Lucite or Lexan or whatever this. > >> > However, BD is fine in aluminum tanks. > >> > > >> > I am wondering if I can use the aluminum tank as a > processor, being > >> > careful when introducing the MOX - I've made BD in HDPE2 > containers > >> > plenty (even the stray plastic bottle way early on). > >> > > >> > So, any thoughts on the aluminum as processor and the > fishtank as a > >> > wash > >> > or settling tank? > >> > > >> > -Weaver > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Biofuel mailing list > >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> > > > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list > archives (50,000 > >> > messages): > >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Biofuel mailing list > >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives > (50,000 > >>messages): > >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > > > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives > (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives > (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/