Wonder what the payback time of those granite counters and appliances is?
On 6/15/07, Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder if you could look at the carbon output and extrapolate backwards > to get a rough idea what the cost is. > > Interesting side note: I was at the bus stop in my neighborhood, which is > for lack of a better word, one of the more exclusive suburbs in the > country, mosty due to its proximity to DC. Many people are tearing down > their small houses and building huge ones, or substantially remodeling > what they have. I fell into conversation with one neighbor doing the > latter. As the conversation started on the subject of the cost of gas and > energy in general, I asked if they'd thought about solar for power, heat > and hot water, a multi-fuel furnace - such as a Tarm and extra insulation, > etc. They'd thought about it, but realized that the $50,000 or so for the > above was about the cost of granite counters and Sub Zero appliances in > the kitchen, and after all, this was their dream house - wasn't it? > > "High efficiency" gas heating and cooling along with better windows are as > far as most people here will go. > > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg18995.html > > [biofuel] The Railroading of Amtrak > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg12055.html > > [biofuel] Subsidizing Trains, Planes And Automobiles > > > > (The whole discussion thread is linked at the end of the page.) > > > > Trains are a great way to travel, even better than ships. And the > > best way to commute. > > > >>Like Keith stated so succinctly in a prior post, > >>the USA isn't addicted to oil, it is addicted to > >>waste. > > > > I didn't check it and I didn't download it either, but somebody was > > saying that people bandied the figure around a lot these days that > > the US had 5% of the world's population and uses 25% of the energy, > > but he'd seen data years ago that the US used 45% of the world's > > energy and he didn't think it had shrunk. > > > > I got to wondering what the figure might be if you included the full > > energy costs of the war in Iraq, for instance, or the full energy > > costs of the Empire's global military establishment, as someone like > > Chalmers Johnson might put it, along with all the support stuff that > > goes with it. For starters. What's the global energy bill of the US? > > (Or am I looking at it all wrong?) > > > > I don't suppose we'd ever find out. I'm not very surprised when > > energy data turns out to be mostly smoke and mirrors. That's been the > > case with oil reserves for a long time, especially with what Matt > > Simmons has had to say about it more recently. Nobody really knows, > > but that doesn't stop them lying about it. > > > > Whatever, a lot of list members have talked about the waste of energy > > in the US. Hakan, for instance, who'd know, said the US was IIRC > > about 30 years behind Sweden with energy efficient buildings. The > > section on world energy use at our website (which might be where the > > 25% came from) says "The average American uses twice as much energy > > as the average European or Japanese and 155 times as much as the > > average Nepalese. In terms of production, Americans produce more per > > head than Europeans and about the same as Japanese, but they use > > twice as much energy as the Japanese to do it." > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html#energyuse > > > > I wouldn't say the Japanese are exactly paragons of energy > > efficiency. In some ways yes, with solar and K-trucks, for instance, > > but they've got a long way to go. There are way too many cars here, > > K-trucks notwithstanding, recycling's good in some sectors, but not > > much reduce, very little re-use, too much needless consumption - a > > popular book here tells you all sorts of ways to throw things away > > more creatively (which doesn't necessarily mean being more > > eco-friendly about it). > > > > Still, millions of people ride their bicycles to the rail station > > every day to go to work. Japanese trains are great! > > > > From a previous message: > > > >>[Japanese] Foreign Minister Taro Aso pointed out Friday that Japan's > >>oil efficiency is eight times better than that of China, quoting > >>data from International Energy Agency, an energy policy adviser to > >>26 industrialized countries. > >> > >>"I have told (Chinese Foreign Minister) Li Zhaoxing that China would > >>be able to curb its oil consumption to one-eighth (of the current > >>level) if (it) becomes like us," Aso said when asked to comment on > >>China's energy problems. > > > > So China's more wasteful than the US? > > > > I wonder if China will take that to mean that they can cut > > seven-eighths of their oil consumption if they do it like Japan or > > that they'll be able to produce eight times as much with the amount > > of oil they're using now. > > > > Best > > > > Keith > > > > > >>Dawie Coetzee wrote: > >> > This from another group: > >> > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carfree_cities/message/10256 > >> > > >> >> Fuel-sipping trains > >> >> June 11, 2007 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> With energy prices high and likely to go higher in the years ahead, > >> >> it would make sense for the nation to embrace a transportation > >> >> policy that puts a premium on energy efficiency. Transportation, > >> >> along with electrical power generation, is the country's biggest > >> >> consumer of fossil and renewable fuels. So what is the most fuel- > >> >> efficient form of transportation available in the U.S. today? > >> >> Believe it or not, it's Amtrak. > >> > >>This is kinda a no brainer. > >> > >>How long ago was it that Bush1 made up the > >>transportation policy for 'the next 20 years' > >>for the US? > >> > >>All I remember, is that I recently out of the service > >>having spent the previous 18 months in (then) western > >>Europe, and was already a big fan of bicycling. > >> > >>I was really hoping to hear about major investment > >>in light rail, revamping heavy (freight) rail lines > >>and of course the idea that is so good it's almost > >>stupid, radical investment in bike-friendly transportation > >>infrastructure. > >> > >>Having seen this all over Europe, I was convinced > >>that my home country, the USA would embrace this > >>approach, it just makes so much sense. > >>What a naive fool. Even then, in my 30s, I had > >>yet to grasp how idiotic my culture can be. > >> > >>Bush1 gave it all away, gave a great speech > >>about revamping our then crumbling interstate > >>highway infrastructure, to the joyful salutations > >>of the automobile, trucking, and local porkbarrel > >>contractors and industries. How insane! I thought, > >>can't anyone see how much economic growth could > >>be garnered by targeting these alternative approaches? > >> > >>Uhh, probably, probably all too well. As I listened > >>to CSPAN and all the elected folks railing about > >>the 'taxpayer burden' of continued subsidy of AMTRAK. > >>As if all the hundreds of billions spent on backing > >>the airlines and interstate systems, as well as the automotive > >>industries was nothing. Even at that point I was > >>pretty ignorant of the staggeringly huge subsidies > >>expended on the fuel industry in the USA. > >> > >>How this is actually seen. > >> > >>NPR recently did the inquiry I was hoping someone would > >>do. It was so close to what I was hoping for I was > >>a bit taken aback when I heard about it. > >>Basically, the transportation cost of taking > >>a family of 4 one-way from the Washington DC region to > >>Boston Mass, via AMTRAK vs. driving. > >> > >>Make no mistake, not matter how hard you hit > >>up the cost of operating a SUV, there isn't any > >>comparison. Barreling (heh) up I95 in an SUV > >>full of people, FROM THE CONSUMER POINT OF VIEW > >>is MUCH less expensive than taking the same > >>group of people on AMTRAK. > >> > >>Until this changes, meaning, in my mind, that > >>until AMTRAK and other passenger rail systems start > >>receiving the same kind of consideration that > >>the car culture receives this will remain > >>so. > >> > >>I could go on and on about this. Perhaps its the > >>romance of rail travel (I quickly admit how much > >>I enjoy travelling by rail, having been fortunate > >>enough to have done so numerous times since I was > >>a child) perhaps all these other things, but as > >>has been hammered on by this list so many times > >>in the past, Until the USA just simply gets over > >>this childish/infantile NEED for immediate gratification > >>this will be the continued suicidal direction. \ > >> > >>Maybe in the 80s, when telecommuting was just starting > >>to begin to make sense, but certainly now, where for > >>so much of the commuting traffic here in the USA, it's > >>a genuine alternative, held up only by corporate culture, > >>esp in the east (where the laws are made) and so on, > >>blah blah blah. > >> > >>I do love trains, even in view of their shameful > >>past. The infrastructure is there. Not making > >>full use of it, esp in view of what is currently known > >>is criminal. > >> > >>Like Keith stated so succinctly in a prior post, > >>the USA isn't addicted to oil, it is addicted to > >>waste. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > -- Zeke Yewdall Chief Electrical Engineer Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company Cell: 720.352.2508 Office: 303.459.0177 FAX documents to: 720.269.1240 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cosunflower.com CoSEIA Certified Certified BP Solar Installer National Association of Home Builders Quotable Quote "In the dark of the moon, in flying snow, in the dead of winter, war spreading, families dying, the world in danger, I walk the rocky hillside sowing clover." Wendell Berry _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
