From the discussions, paragraphs may split a verse, but by and large
contain verses.
Let's assume that a presentation semantic is that:
First paragraphs in a chapter are handled specially, with the verse
number is not emitted and the first letter is made to span the start of
3 lines in a fancy font
Each paragraph is followed by a blank line.
Subsequent paragraphs are indented. followed by the verse number,
appropriately decorated, then the pilcrow, paragraph mark and finally
the verse text.
Also, at the end of each verse, one footnote marker is placed for all
the notes regarding that verse.
(So, in this presentation semantic, paragraph begin and ends are
important and so are verse begin and verse ends)
Given a well-formed, valid OSIS this is relatively easy to do with xslt.
Couple of questions using the following "pseudocode" construct? (leaving
out most attributes)
Purpose of the question is to determine how to transform the good OSIS
into a osis2mod acceptable form using xslt.
Also, it helps determine whether the current KJV paragraph marker is
best positioned at the end of a verse or the beginning of a verse.
<chapter>
<title>Chapter Heading</title>
<p>
<verse sid=1/>v1<verse eid=1/>
<verse sid=2/>v2<verse eid=2/>
...
<verse sid=m/>vm<verse eid=m/>
</p><p>
<verse sid=n/>vn<verse eid=n/>
...
<verse sid=x/>vxa</p><p>vxb<verse eid=x/>
...
<verse sid=z/>vz<verse eid=z/>
</p>
</chapter>
We could also add paragraphs starting and ending
Last time I checked, osis2mod did not find a verse that started
immediately after a paragraph start.
If it did, what would it look like in a module (if the bug were fixed)?
Today, it would be something like (Showing a verse per line):
<title type="x-preverse">Chapter Heading</title>v1
v2
...
vm
vn
...
vxa</p><p>vxb
...
vz
I don't think that osis2mod preserves much content that stands between
verses.
If osis2mod is changed to handle such a construct, what would the module
look like?
Where would the <p> be located? How about the </p>? Might it be
something like:
<title type="x-preverse>Chapter Heading</title><p type="x-preverse">v1
v2
...
vm</p>
<p type="x-preverse">vn
...
vxa</p><p>vxb
...
vz</p>
(One of the problems with synthetically adding type="x-preverse" is that
it may overwrite a currently existing attribute's value.)
Chris Little wrote:
I think perhaps we are confusing presentation and semantic markup.
Pilcrows are just presentation forms of paragraphs. If "<p>...</p>"
means, for you, that whitespace and/or indentation will result, you're
thinking about presentation.
The fact is, for the purpose of encoding, I absolutely don't care what
the presentation will eventually be. What I care about is marking
paragraphs. In my world, paragraphs are real things. They have real
starts and real ends. And in OSIS, you encode them with container
elements: <p>...</p>, which don't specify eventual presentation at
all. You can't encode them with milestones because there is no such
thing as a paragraph without a start or a paragraph without an end.
My statement stands (and is correct) that every chapter of every book
of the KJV and NASB begins a new paragraph. The statement you quote
really does nothing but confirm that a new paragraph begins before
Matt 9.2. That is, it does not deny another paragraph containing only
Matt 9.1. I'll give you another example with EXACTLY the same
structural configuration:
<BN>MATTHEW
CHAPTER 1
<SH>The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
{{40:1}}1 The <N1>record<MG976> of the genealogy<MG1078> of
<N2>Jesus<MG2424> <N3>the Messiah<MG5547>, <RA>the son<MG5207> of
David<MG1160b>, <RB>the son<MG5207> of Abraham<MG11>:
<PM>{{40:1}}2 Abraham<MG11> <N1>was the father<MG1080> of
Isaac<MG2464>, <N2>Isaac<MG2464> the father<MG1080> of Jacob<MG2384>,
and Jacob<MG2384> the father<MG1080> of <N3>Judah<MG2455> and his
brothers<MG80>.
{{40:1}}3 Judah<MG2455> was the father<MG1080> of Perez<MG5329> and
Zerah<MG2196> by Tamar<MG2283>, <RA>Perez<MG5329> was the
father<MG1080> of Hezron<MG2074>, and Hezron<MG2074> the
father<MG1080> of <N1>Ram<MG689>.
In both instances, you get a chapter start followed by a section
heading followed by one verse. Then you get a paragraph division
followed by the second and consecutive verses. You can't possibly
claim that verse 1 is anything other than the complete contents of the
chapter's first paragraph. Likewise, the section heading is very
significant. These always signal a new section (new <div>) and a new
paragraph inside that. How do we know this? Well, without exception,
every <SH> mark in the NASB is followed either by a verse with a <PM>
or by verse 1 of a chapter.
There are basically two options:
1) The markup of the NASB is completely specified, and therefore every
chapter starts a new paragraph.
2) The markup of the NASB is vague and there is never any way to know
the extent of paragraphs.
In any event, we also know that every chapter of the KJV started a new
chapter because the typesetters took the translators' instructions and
put a section heading & dropcap at the beginning of each chapter to
indicate this.
--Chris
Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
My apologies for the bad timestamp on the previous send of this
message. Fixed time and resending to help the flow. And a good
opportunity to add one comment:
Chris, I understand that you would not say "bag what the translators
wanted, just put a <p> marker at the top of each chapter." It seems
we both think the translators (I do not hold the same regard for the
typesetters) meant something very specific, were not idiots, and we
should preserve their intent.
We are of the same spirit.
-Troy.
Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
In both the KJV and its genetic descendant, the NASB, every single
chapter, without exception, begins a new paragraph.
<quote who="me" recipient="Pike Lambeth; VP Ops; Lockman Foundation"
date="October 14, 2003 5:23 PM">
...
Version 2.0 of the OSIS (Open Scripture Information Standard) spec
should be available any day, and I have been fighting for a few new
mechanisms so that I might be able to completely encode your NASB
data in the OSIS specification.
I have a few questions where your comments might help me succeed in
getting these tags added:
1) To quote your data from Matthew 8:34-9:2
{{40:8}}34 And behold<MG2400>, the whole<MG3956> city<MG4172>
came<MG1831> out to meet<MG5222> Jesus<MG2424>; and when they
saw<MG3708> Him, <RA>they implored<MG3870> Him to leave<MG3327>
their region<MG3725>.
CHAPTER 9
<SH>A Paralytic Healed
{{40:9}}1 Getting<MG1684> into a boat<MG4143>, Jesus crossed<MG1276>
over<MG1276> {the sea} and came<MG2064> to <RA>His own<MG2398>
city<MG4172>.
<PM>{{40:9}}2 <RA>And they brought<MG4374> to Him a
<RB>paralytic<MG3885> lying<MG906> on a bed<MG2825b>. Seeing<MG3708>
their faith<MG4102>, Jesus<MG2424> said<MG3004> to the
paralytic<MG3885>, <RS>``<RC>Take<MG2293> courage<MG2293>,
<N1>son<MG5043>; <RD>your sins<MG266> are forgiven<MG863>."<RT>
There is a <PM> (paragraph break mark) after verse 1 in chapter 9. I
would guess that this means that your editors disagreed with Jerome
and think the paragraph ending Chapter 8 continues into the first
verse of Chapter 9, which seems to me to be a fine conclusion. Can
you confirm that 9:1 belongs with the paragraph at the end of 8? (or
any similar case where the NASB does not feel that a new paragraph
begins at each chapter mark).
...
</quote>
<quote who="Pike Lambeth; VP Ops; Lockman Foundation" recipient="me"
date="October 17, 2003 4:22 PM">
...
1. Yes, our translators thought the new paragraph should be at verse
2. I know there are more situations like this but I do not have a
list.
...
</quote>
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: [email protected]
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: [email protected]
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: [email protected]
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
_______________________________________________
sword-devel mailing list: [email protected]
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
