>your schema is neither simple nor usable for multilangue area >what's the primaryOnTheGroundLang for Brussels ? or Fribourg ? >f I understand you very well, ...
sorry, maybe the "Heuristic" is a better word = "a practical method not guaranteed to be optimal or perfect, but sufficient for the immediate goals. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic We can improve and we can invent a complex metadata - for most of the extreme case, and maybe we can reach the ~99.5% - precision. We can add some other rules - detecting charset (Arabic, Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese Traditional, Korean, Japanese , Thai , ... ) - separators + language orders - we can add some extra regexp or other special rules ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_rules_engine ) separator , Language_orders, PossibleLanguages, Charset_order ,example Brussels, Q239 , " - ", 'fr nl' , fr nl de , "latin latin" ,"Rue du Marché aux Poulets - Kiekenmarkt" Hong Kong, Q8646, " ", 'zh en' , zh en , "chinese latin" ,"干諾道中 Connaught Road Central" Sardinia, Q1462, "/", unknown , sc ca co lij it , ,"Nùgoro/Nuoro" South Tyrol,Q15124, " - ", unknown , it de lld , ,"Urtijëi - St. Ulrich - Ortisei" In South Tyrol / Sardegna (Sardinia) the language order is not defined("unknown"). But we can add some QA check for detecting all "name:*" tags exists. Maybe in the new OSM data model - we can solve this problem. 2018-04-24 19:20 GMT+02:00 marc marc <[email protected]>: > your schema is neither simple nor usable for multilangue area > what's the primaryOnTheGroundLang for Brussels ? or Fribourg ? > if I understand you very well, a guy need to travel the city and count > how many NameOnTheGround is in fr and how many in nl and after he can > create the metadata. woaw ! > and what if 2 langages have the same count ? > because in Brussels all street signs are bilingual. > > a KISS schema for boundary look like > language:fr=main or official or designated + language:nl=thesame > or official_language:fr=yes + official_language:nl=yes > or official_language=fr;nl > > and it somebody want to include a kind of ground stat or spoken > language, it's maybe another chanllenge... and have no idea of what kind > of source you 'll find for that. > > Le 24. 04. 18 à 18:56, Imre Samu a écrit : > >> The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how to > calculate the language of the "name" tag. > > > > As I understand - We need a "simple metadata" - about the "current > > mapping rules" [ https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names > ] > > So, We can use this for: > > - Multilingual Maps > > - OSM Editors - checking/validating character sets, extreme characters > > - "Localization of name suggestion": > > https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11 > > - other QA tools ( osmcha?) > > > > My biggest problem is the "on the ground" rule: > > / "The "on the ground" rule remains the method of determining the > > appropriate value for the name tag. "/ > > https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_ > Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea > > > > But sometimes reusing this metadata for QA rules is not so simple : > > - " Béla Bartók square in Paris. The “ó” is not valid in French." see > > more: https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187 > > > > > > *My pragmatic solution* > > > > in my mind, this is 2 separated problem: > > - inventing a good metadata for every case ( see > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names for example: > > Hong Kong ) > > - storing the metadata [ as an OSM tag; in the OsmWiki ; in the > > Github(https://github.com/osmlab/....) > > > > > > First - We can create a simple metadata - with the "Wikidata"-keys on > > the OSM admin areas > > > > like a simple Wikidata(OSM admin-area) - primary/secondary language > > code table > > > > name_en, Wikidata, primaryOnTheGroundLang, > > secondaryOnTheGroundLang > > Aruba, Q21203, nl , > > Afghanistan,Q889, ps > > Angola, Q916, pt > > Anguilla,Q25228, en > > Albania,Q222, sq > > Åland Islands,Q5689, sv > > .. > > Crimea, Q7835, ru, uk > > Russia, Q159, ru, > > Ukraine, Q212, uk, > > ... > > > > - If some area overlapping ( "Crimea") - the smaller area has a higher > > priority > > - We can merge this metadata with the OSM - and after we have polygons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2018-04-24 15:58 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>>: > > > > The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how > > to calculate the language of the "name" tag. Without it, name tag > > becomes nearly useless. For example: > > > > * An Italian user viewing a feature in China with two tags: "name" > > and "name:fr". In this case, "name:fr" tag is preferred because > > "name" is likely to be in Chinese - not great for an Italian speaker. > > * Same tags, but the feature is in Italy -- now "name" tag is the > > better choice because the name is actually in the same language as > > the reader. > > > > Without knowing the language of the "name" tag, we cannot use it as > > part of the "script matching" - give preference to languages that > > use the same script as the reader, even if the language is different. > > > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Andy Townsend <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > On 24/04/2018 09:11, Rory McCann wrote: > > > > Ireland has 2 official languges (Irish first & then > > English), but only ~2% of the population speak Irish daily. > > There are some legal defined regions of Ireland which are > > supposed to be "Irish speaking areas", but even there Irish > > is a minority language. So how should that be tagged? (Some > > day we'll get around to mapping the Gaeltachtaí) > > > > > > Ireland's pretty much a "best case" for this as it does have > > defined language regions for Irish. Most places don't. > > > > > > If you want to know the language in a multi-lingual area, > > why not look at the name, and name:XX tags. If the name > > value is the same as a name:Z then Z is the language. > > > > > > That won't always work. You can probably guess the example I'm > > going to pick next - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235 > > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235> :) > > > > For those unaware, the story there is summarised at > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name> . It's a while > > since I've been there; not sure how much of a "cause celebre" it > > is currently. I've certainly heard people on RTE refer to it as > > "Dingle / An Daingean" (that's the English name and the commonly > > used Irish name but not the official Irish name...). > > > > Best Regards, > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tagging mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tagging mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tagging mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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