You're right, I agree with you that we need to make things clear and
that those pages may not be rewrote, because they have been wrote
independently, at different point in time, and as soon as you add the
issue bringed by translations you can measure how difficult it can be,
if one does not master English, to pick the good tag for a given country
or make sure translations are aligned. Consequently every input (coming
from Wikipedia or from somewhere else) is valuable.
On a separate note, a separate wiki page for comparing places to sleep
sounds reasonable, but based on your concerns, I'm not sure what
meaningful criteria we could list there other than one based on name=*.
I was thinking on something like
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking or
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport : You read it and
there you have all concepts related to what you're trying to map. This
"Sleeping accomodation" page (or any other appropriate name) would try,
in one consolated single place, to route someone to the right tag
(hotel, motel, hostel, camping, glamping, shelter, guest house...),
maybe also considering some country specific contexts (and concepts
foreigners does not know). A kind of "hub". Then, the (already existing)
Tag wiki pages would still exist but more focused on the HOW: how to map
an hotel, how to map a motel, how to map...
What does other people think? If I have time I can give it a try, but
feel free to start it and people will collaborate.
Merry Christmas to everyone, a time to remember how fascinating is the
Planet we are trying to map.
Yours,
LeTopographeFou
Le 23/12/2018 à 21:37, bkil a écrit :
Unfortunately, if we only included the objective criteria based on a
high interaction between the parking lot and the rooms, then the
number of motels in Hungary for example would be near zero. As two of
you have raised concerns regarding this change, I've reverted it and
moved the text to my own space, see here if anyone would still like to
comment:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bkil/Tag:tourism%3Dmotel
But then again, the current page is almost useless in its current
form: if we blanked the article and simply wrote "Tag an establishment
as tourism=motel if its name=* contains the word 'Motel'", we would be
providing at least as much help to mappers, if not more. This can't be
right.
At the same time, based on the proposed criteria, I could identify a
large number of them around here and the result correlated very well
with whether their nameplate contains the word "Motel" or not. Most
points of my criteria are nearly objective. You simply sum them up,
and the higher score you get, the more confident you get in your
decision (a'la reCAPTCHA v3).
Again, as mentioned in the text, none of those listed were
requirements, this should only be understood as an implication. I.e.,
if we are talking about a hotel, it is perfectly normal that some
points will not apply. Also, some points may be given more weight than
others - so the so called "objective" points could be weighed more.
On a separate note, a separate wiki page for comparing places to sleep
sounds reasonable, but based on your concerns, I'm not sure what
meaningful criteria we could list there other than one based on name=*.
Let's read the Wikipedia article together and then discuss the matter
further. I agree that as mentioned there as well, several providers
use the term "motel" as a synonym for a budget hotel or pension, but
that's still not the original meaning and this should not bias our
perceptions. I've linked a few dozen in the changeset of my opening
question so we are on the same page.
Here are my favorite ones from a mapping perspective:
http://www.momotel.hu/
http://www.lokomotivmotel.hu/en/photo_gallery.html
I really look forward to keeping this constructive - as my motive is
still to help others in making their mapping decisions when in doubt.
Wish you all happy holidays
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:17 PM LeTopographeFou
<letopographe...@gmail.com <mailto:letopographe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you for asking.
I go a lot to either motels or hotels and I also think that the
difference between a motel and an hotel is mainly based on the
design of the place, not on the number of nights, the proximity to
tourist attractions or major highways or the cost of the land.
Consequently I disagree with most of your criteria in the "How to
tell apart from hotel" section and would reduce the list to
objective criteria based on the design of the place, i.e an high
interaction between the parking lot and the rooms (which often
means that room access is made from the parking lot). Everything
else may be your criteria but are not objective criteria IMHO.
Speaking of the difference with a guest house the main difference
would be: Is the owner a company (i.e. an incorporated business)
with employees (for check in, check out...) or is it a
self-managed business? I think the question applies also to hotels.
Also, I suggest you to sum up eveything in one Wiki page listing
all scenarios of sleeping places (camping, glamping, hotel, motel
and guest house), keeping the actual one as how to use the tags
(not how to choose the best one) instead of keeping 5 pages which
will never (?) be aligned.
Yours,
LeTopographeFou
Le 23/12/2018 à 12:05, bkil a écrit :
Thank you for the insight, I'll try to figure out a better
wording there. I'm also considering to improve the wording of the
guest house and hotel articles in the future, though I'll need to
find a way to do this without adding too much redundancy.
Well, what I wanted to convey in those sentences was that I'd
expect the average booked nights per stay to be lower for a motel
compared to a hotel.
Compared to renting a flat, both motel and hotel stays are
considered short-term. However, if we used the exact same wording
of simply "short term" on both wiki articles, we would be missing
the opportunity for an important distinction: while one happily
books a whole week in a hotel for the sake of enjoying the
leisure, services and attractions nearby, motels by design have
been more intended for transit traffic.
Of course I'm not talking about a hard split, as in all or
nothing. Surely a number of people on the budget will stay at a
motel and commute from there daily to their real destinations
simply because of the cost savings, but I'd say that the core
business model of most motels relies (or have historically
relied) on transient use.
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Joseph Eisenberg
<joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
The one concern I have is the new sentences that suggest that
hotels are “typically not [booked for ] single night” while
motels are usually booked for 1 night.
I have certainly stayed for 2 to 3 nights at a “Motel 6” and
other motels.
And I have never encountered problems booking rooms for a
single night at 3 and 3.5 star hotels for business trips.
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 6:34 PM bkil <bkil.hu
<http://bkil.hu>+a...@gmail.com <mailto:a...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've made a major rewording of this tag. Please review
and don't hesitate to comment or improve if I've
mistakenly changed the meaning of the tag:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Atourism%3Dmotel&type=revision&diff=1755686&oldid=1561324
Source: based on Wikipedia and recent mapping experience:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/65702446#map=9/47.1412/18.6632
It also looks like some have used the word motel for what
should have been pensions and guest houses around here,
I'll also fix these later.
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